740GL: problems with harmonic balancer replacement

Discussion in 'Volvo 740' started by Jimbo, Nov 9, 2004.

  1. Jimbo

    Jimbo Guest

    It is an 89 model 740 GL, stock 4-cyl engine, 230K miles on original
    engine. The harmonic balancer (or crankshaft pulley) that drives all of the
    accessories failed. The outer part separated from the inner part. The outer
    part was turned at an angle of more or less 30 degrees by one of the belts,
    and it and the belts "jammed" up while the engine continued running for a
    while, the inner part of the balancer still locked on to the shaft, still
    spinning. Nothing was left of the rubber, and part of the bottom of the
    timing belt housing was ground away. Fortunately my wife noticed the
    overheat and stopped the car before the engine was burned up.
    Trying to save some bucks (money very tight) I went and bought a used
    harmonic balancer and installed it. However, it had quite a bit of wobble
    when I test-ran it, the wobble of a pulley running on a bent shaft. This of
    course makes the belts vibrate/jump. They are not jumping around so badly
    that you hear anything abnormal or feel any abnormal vibration when
    driving....but it looks bad, for sure.
    Well, I concluded that either I got a bad part, or the shaft end was bent
    by the extreme sideways pull that must have occurred when the outer part of
    the balancer got wedged/jammed up. So I spent $120 for a brand new
    pulley/balancer and installed it. Very bad news....the new one has *exactly*
    the same wobble as the old one did. Well, the car is actually my
    brothers', and when he got back in town and needed to drive it for a while,
    he took it to some mechanic who tells him that the balancer is not put on
    right and that is why it is wobbling....and says don't drive it at all, it
    is going to fail and ruin the engine. (We've probably put at least 2000
    miles on it with it wobbling!)
    Now I would hope that he is right---I didn't install it right....but
    then again, someone who doesn't really KNOW that it is not installed right
    would certainly look at that wobbling harmonic balancer and conclude it is
    not put on right. But I cannot think of any way I could have put it on that
    would make it wobble. I mean, it was hard to get it started on the shaft
    because the tolerances are *very* close, and it is pushed ALL the way on to
    the shaft. I could not see or feel any erosion or damage to the shaft at
    all. The key has it securely locked in place, it's not coming loose. What
    could I have done wrong? And two different balancers have the same wobble?
    Its not a "run-out" wobble, it is a lateral wobble, as you would have from a
    slightly bent shaft.
    If the shaft end coming out of the block (which I guess is the actual
    end of the crankshaft, through the front seal?) has been bent a little, then
    there is nothing to do but a major overhaul to replace or true up the crank,
    right?
    If I take the balancer and belts back off, and somehow affix something
    like a metal ruler to the front of the engine so that it is almost touching
    the shaft--- then turn over the engine, would this be a good way to confirm
    a bent shaft? (don't know how practical this would be, as it might shake a
    lot).
    I'm getting the car back for some months or maybe permanently....just
    don't know if we should not drive it at all as that mechanic said....but
    there is no money for a crankshaft repair, and won't be for a LONG while,
    and we need to drive is on rare occasions for short distances, as a back-up
    car.
    I don't know of any mechanic I can take it to for diagnosis that I can
    trust....would like the opinion of someone like a pro who knows these
    engines. Thanks!
     
    Jimbo, Nov 9, 2004
    #1

  2. I've only ever needed to take the crankshaft pulley off when I've
    changed the timing belt. Every time it was an easy sliding fit onto
    the shaft. It fits snugly against a shoulder and is held firmly in
    place by a big bolt.

    In my opinion, it would take and large force to bend the end of the
    crankshaft a visible amount, and I wouldn't have expected the tension
    from the drive belts to have been able to do this. If this has
    happened, then it may have rung the crankshaft, meaning the whole
    shaft will be a little out of true. But I guess the only way to be
    certain is to take the pulley off, and turn the engine over with a
    dial test indicator[1] set up against the nose of the shaft.

    I guess it would be worth running the engine for a minute with the
    pulley off, to see if it is visible by eye. But make sure the shaft
    and shoulder is clean and burr free, ditto the inside of the pulley,
    and make sure the securing bolt is not bent or damaged.


    [1] A DTI is a sensitve dial guage which has a little plunger that
    responds to movement. The gauge is held securely on a mounting
    bracket, and the plunger rests against the thing to be tested, in this
    case the shaft. As you rotate the shaft, the gauge will show if it is
    out of true. A good DTI is quite expensive, but a good engineering
    workshop may be able to help you for not much money.
    --

    Stewart Hargrave


    For email, replace 'SpamOnlyToHere' with my name
     
    Stewart Hargrave, Nov 9, 2004
    #2
  3. Jimbo

    G Klein Guest

    It sounds like you did not install the balancer correctly there is a notch
    on the crankshaft that lines up with the notch that is removed from the
    balancer been working on Volvos for 20 years never have I seen a crankshaft
    bend on a red motor
    Glenn

    --
    "*-344-*Never Forgotten"
    Is for the New York City Firemen who lost their lives on September 11,2001.
    The official count is 343, but there was also a volunteer who lost his life
    aiding in the initial rescue efforts. And I will never forget them as long
    as I live,
    nor should any American.
    "Mow Green"
     
    G Klein, Nov 9, 2004
    #3
  4. Jimbo

    radietz Guest

    Nodular iron crankshafts don't bend. If you apply enough force to bend
    it they will snap off. The crank wheel for the timing belt is keyed to
    the shaft. On the front side of the wheel there is a vertical key (nub)
    that engages a radial slot in the back side of the damper pulley in
    addition to the outer belt guard washer (all three pieces must be
    aligned correctly). If the damper has been incorrectly installed it's
    likely that the nub has been deformed and you'll have to remove it from
    the crankshaft and dress it with a file, or replace it if the incorrect
    installation has split it, in order to allow the pieces to mate up
    correctly and run true.

    Bob

    Bob
     
    radietz, Nov 10, 2004
    #4
  5. Jimbo

    James Sweet Guest


    I experienced the wobbling once when I got distracted and put the crank
    pully on 180 degrees off from the way it should have been so the key wasn't
    sitting in the slot properly. If this is all lined up correctly you may have
    bent the crank, in that case if you can't live with the wobble I would
    consider dropping in a junkyard engine if the rest of the car is ok.
     
    James Sweet, Nov 10, 2004
    #5
  6. As others have said, very unlikely the crankshaft is bent. In addition,
    don't sweat the mileage you have put on the engine - that area is mighty
    tough, a lot tougher than the belts are.

    When you remove the balancer, check the end of the crankshaft and the inside
    of the balancer, where they fit, for debris. If you see galled marks on
    either from this misadventure, feel them to ensure they aren't sticking out
    significantly. Fit them together carefully as the others have described
    (maybe with a new key - they are cheap and easily deformed).

    Harmonic balancer failures are very common. When ours failed my wife was
    driving and noticed the outer part rolling into the gutter behind her! For
    that reason, I suggest being leery of the used part. The new one should last
    another 10-15 years. And don't lose sleep over the crankshaft.

    Mike
     
    Michael Pardee, Nov 10, 2004
    #6
  7. Jimbo

    Jimbo Guest

    Well, that is a relief that the shaft is very unlikely to be bent. When
    installing the balancer, I saw the square notch in the end of the shaft, and
    corresponding square notch on the inside radius of the balancer, so it was
    obvious I needed a square key....but that part was gone, had fallen off and
    been lost. I could only find a piece of steel barstock that was slightly
    oversize, and so I just filed it down (didn't take much) until I could tap
    it securely into the shaft slot. So--of course the balancer and shaft are
    aligned properly, the barstock key insures that they only go back together
    aligned. But I don't know what this "outer belt guard washer" is. I don't
    recall any washer like that, although there may have been a normal type of
    washer on the bolt....but nothing of a large diameter that could be called a
    "belt guard". Is it missing some critical piece? Thanks all!
     
    Jimbo, Nov 10, 2004
    #7
  8. Jimbo

    Per Hauge Guest

    I'm not quit sure, but I think you have made a mistake.
    As I remember the notch in the shaft is not for the balancer but for the
    belt pulley, infact the belt pulley would have a protruding tip on the
    opposite side of the notch on the shaft, this tip should match with the
    notch in the balancer.

    Regards
    Per Hauge
     
    Per Hauge, Nov 10, 2004
    #8
  9. Jimbo

    Per Hauge Guest

    Per Hauge, Nov 10, 2004
    #9
  10. In the B230 engine (740/760) the harmonic balancer is integral with the
    pulley. In fact, the rubber part that fails fastens the pulleys to the core.
    I understand the arrangement in the 240s is different.

    I think you have identified the problem, Jimbo. You need a "real" Woodruff
    key. They only come in a few popular sizes, and are available in
    well-stocked hardware stores. Ace hardware chain stores usually have them in
    their plastic drawers of specialty hardware, with roll pins and cotter keys
    and things like that. They are cheap enough that you can buy one of every
    likely size.

    The only washer you need is the thick one that goes under the head of the
    crank bolt to hold the harmonic dampener fast.

    Mike
     
    Michael Pardee, Nov 10, 2004
    #10
  11. Oops - it also occurs to me that the crank bolt washer might be "dished."
    (It's been a few years since I had the pleasure.) If so, be sure the outer
    edge fits against the balancer and holds it tight. If you are not having to
    use a puller to get the balancer off, and if it doesn't provide several mm
    movement of drag while putting it on and pulling it off, it isn't seating
    right.

    Mike
     
    Michael Pardee, Nov 10, 2004
    #11
  12. Jimbo

    radietz Guest

    You're absolutely correct, sir. The square key that fits the
    longitudinal slot in the crank shaft end is cast into the t'belt pulley
    and extends inward toward the rear of the motor about halfway through
    the bore. This is because the broach wheel used to mill the slot is
    round and leaves a radiused end to the slot. The slot forward of the
    t/belt pulley is otherwise unused.

    The nub that locates and holds the damper pulley in place is on the
    radial axis exactly parallel to the crank slot, as your referenced
    pictures show. The nub in reference is being replaced in the brickboard
    article. The author seems to be very lucky. I the cases that I have seen
    over the years where the crank bolt has been left loose, or the pulley
    installed out of proper alignment and then tightened to spec. the t/belt
    pulley cracks along side of the "key."

    The belt guard is behind, or should be behind the lower timing belt
    cover. There is a rounded notch punched on the inner diameter that fits
    over the nub. If the timing cover were off you would see a narrow square
    notch that indicates TDC when aligned with the timing mark on the engine
    front cover (metal piece) behind the lower timing belt cover (plastic
    piece).

    The counter hold tool can be easily modified to lock the Scan-tech
    damper and will still work to hold the Volvo damper. Probably a better
    solution than modifying every Scan-tech damper that comes along.

    Bob
     
    radietz, Nov 11, 2004
    #12
  13. Jimbo

    James Sweet Guest

    Or you could go to a junkyard and pull one from another B230, and in the
    process you'd be able to refresh yourself on how it all goes back together.
     
    James Sweet, Nov 11, 2004
    #13
  14. Jimbo

    Per Hauge Guest

    I probably wasn't so accurate in my description, that is I was referring to
    the timing belt pulley which is not a part of the harmonic balancer with
    accessory pulleys. The timing belt pulley has the tip that should correspond
    with the notch in the balancer core. If the balancer is put on 180 degrees
    wrongly it will be tilted because of the protruding tip on the timing belt
    pulley. That is what I suggested had happened in this case.

    Per Hauge
     
    Per Hauge, Nov 11, 2004
    #14
  15. Jimbo

    Jimbo Guest

    That may be exactly what I did wrong, I had balancer flipped around the
    wrong way. I don't remember mating a pin on the timing belt pulley up with a
    hole in the balancer. Will check that possibility out. thanks, Jim
     
    Jimbo, Nov 13, 2004
    #15
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