OPINION:Quality and Passion Declining in European Automakers

[Guy King]

The message <rXfIe.73987$ro.14903@fed1read02>

Ah, but if they can't get the cupholders right, how can you have any
confidence in the complicated bits and pieces?!

"All I could think of was that I was up there in a spaceship built by
the lowest bidder." - Neil Armstrong.

 

[gcmschemist]

Ah, but if they can't get the cupholders right, how can you have any
confidence in the complicated bits and pieces?!

Cupholders are not necessary items. If they are flimsy, plastic and
crappy, I don't care at all. If the cylinder head is flimsy, plastic
and crappy, then you've got a Lada.

Cupholders are a sop to the American market, and more to the American
motoring press.

They gripe when they don't have a place to put their 2-liter bottles of
Pepsi for the long drive. Frankly, I've never understood why cars need
cupholders. None of the cars I drove growing up had them, and I never
felt the need. My current Audis don't mave much in the way of
cupholders, and I still don't miss them. I'm not going to die of
thirst if I don't drink something for a couple of hours anyway.

If they have any effect on the durability of the drivetrain,
reliability of the accessories, or functionality of the car as a
transportation device, I don't see it.

E.P.

 

[gcmschemist]

Although I am a fan of 70s' and 80s' European automobiles,I can
not help notice this trend all across the board!Rust on new Mercedes
and BMW,plastic on the exteriors of Volvo,and so on

It's a global market, and all the makers must compete with the Hyundais
and Kias, even if they aren't targeting the same market. The object is
"most car for the money spent." Even with Porsche and MB. If you're
looking for a performance convertible, why buy a Boxter if you can get
an S2000? And absolutely why buy a Z3 or Z4? Maybe an M Roadster, but
still, you're buying the badge. So, BMW, MB, VAG, and the others have
to compete somehow. And still have to return profit to shareholders.
So, costs get cut. And to do that, carmakers will do what needs to be
done. Sometimes they will get overzealous and cut costs stupidly -
like the plastic clips VAG used in some of the electric window
applications - the clips would break, and the windows would fall into
the doors. Surely they only saved a few pennies by not using metal.
But a few pennies, times four, times the number of cars produced -
that's some manager's salary. But the pressure is still to push costs
down, such that Audi can compete with Lexus, or Infiniti, or Acura.

Having said all that, I do think that some Euro carmakers have retained
their essential character, even in this era. Porsche, BMW and Audi are
still essentially true to their roots. I'd like to see Audi return to
the bullet-proof drivetrains of the past, over-engineered and
under-powered, rather than where they've gone lately. But they have a
ways to go before they end up like Mitsubishi, with their on-the-edge
of design power:displacement.

E.P.

 

[CaptainW116]

quote;

"Rolls Royce, a triumph of craftsmanship over engineering"

 

[Tom K.]

Cupholders are a sop to the American market, and more to the American
motoring press.

They gripe when they don't have a place to put their 2-liter bottles of
Pepsi for the long drive. Frankly, I've never understood why cars need
cupholders. None of the cars I drove growing up had them, and I never
felt the need. My current Audis don't mave much in the way of
cupholders, and I still don't miss them. I'm not going to die of
thirst if I don't drink something for a couple of hours anyway.

Having just returned from a trip which included nearly 1,000 miles of
prairie and desert driving with temperatures exceeding 105o F and humidity
levels in the 10% range, I'd say you really don't know what you are talking
about. One can seriously dehydrate in as little as 20 minutes under these
conditions. Although admittedly somewhat flimsy, my BMW Z4's cupholders kept
our liter bottles of water cool (right in front of an A/C outlet) and
convenient - as I really don't like searching under my seat for water while
driving at 75 mph. And they are designed to completely retract into the
dash when not needed.

Maybe you should travel in the U.S. before making assumptions about the
habits of American drivers.

Tom K.

 

[gcmschemist]

Having just returned from a trip which included nearly 1,000 miles of
prairie and desert driving with temperatures exceeding 105o F and humidity
levels in the 10% range, I'd say you really don't know what you are talking
about.

My wife and I did the Grand Tour of the SW National Parks in one of our
current Audis. In July. So I guess I really *do* know what I'm
talking about.

Yeah, the temps and humidities were like that. Funny, we didn't need
cupholders. And, again, we weren't running the AC about half the time.
Neither one of us died of thirst, and we didn't need to have drinks
right at the ready between fuel stops.

One can seriously dehydrate in as little as 20 minutes under these
conditions.

Sure you can. That's why all those people die in their cars while
driving through the desert.

LOL.

Maybe you should travel in the U.S. before making assumptions about the
habits of American drivers.

Maybe you should shut the hell up before making assumptions about
usenet posters.

E.P.

 

[Guy King]

Cupholders are not necessary items. If they are flimsy, plastic and
crappy,

We had a couple of Transits with 'em. In the end I removed 'em 'cos the
users did nothing but complain about how they were broken.

The other complaint was "It uses a lot of fuel". Well, if you're doing a
steady 80mph down the motorway in a coachbuilt Transit with 14 grannies,
all their wheelchairs and the weight of a tail-lift bringing up the rear
it will.

 

[greek_philosophizer]

Even now that BMW owns it?

..

 

[Pete]

"Losiho"

Are you the same Losiho that posts on BITOG?



Cheers,

Pete

 

[greek_philosophizer]

Passion?

My guess is that you will get more passion
from your girfriend in the back of a Maybach
versus anything made elsewhere.

This is not a trivial criteria.

..

 

[CaptainW116]

Passion?

My guess is that you will get more passion
from your girfriend in the back of a Maybach
versus anything made elsewhere.

This is not a trivial criteria.

.

And ruin the upholstery?I think not!!

 

[Steve]

Passion?

My guess is that you will get more passion
from your girfriend in the back of a Maybach
versus anything made elsewhere.

This is not a trivial criteria.

.

If the woman is worth anything I would submit that the driver has
considerably more to do with the frequency and style of 'driving' then the
vehicle used for corporeal transport...IMHO. In the case of trophy class
women, however, your observations may well be correct, if perhaps a tad bit
nouveau...

Could you see Camila in the back seat of a ...Maybach? The former Princess
of Wales otoh however...

 

[gcmschemist]

Could you see Camila in the back seat of a ...Maybach?

Thanks for *that* mental image...

E.P. (No amount of scrubbing will remove that kind of stain...)

 

[Steve]

And ruin the upholstery?I think not!!

My good sir!

I will have you know that distasteful as contemplation of the remediation of
such an act may be (although perhaps prudent, as the adventures of a recent
leader of the western world clearly demonstrated), and pretentious as the
Maybach it's self might be, the vehicle in question does feature fine
leather upholstery which one would assume could withstand a few CC's of
various fluids from time to time.

Furthermore, if one's man can not be trusted to see to such trivial
incidentals I shudder to think of the base level to which western
civilization will have fallen!

 

[daytripper]

Thanks for *that* mental image...

E.P. (No amount of scrubbing will remove that kind of stain...)

From the owners manual: "In this situation, a Maybach owner simply instructs
his man Huffingswarth to have the entire interior replaced by the morn."

"Ah...Maybach!"

;-)

 

[gcmschemist]

From the owners manual: "In this situation, a Maybach owner simply instructs
his man Huffingswarth to have the entire interior replaced by the morn."

"Ah...Maybach!"

I apologize most profusely for the confusion - I meant the stain *from
my mind.*



E.P.

 

[Steve]

I apologize most profusely for the confusion - I meant the stain *from
my mind.*



E.P.

In such cases the public school education he has unquestionably received
will imbued a gentleman with the reflex to close one's eyes and think of
England.

 

[cp]

Having just returned from a trip which included nearly 1,000 miles of prairie and desert driving with temperatures exceeding 105o

F and humidity levels in the 10% range, I'd say you really don't know what you are talking about.

I did 13,000km (that's more than 8,000 miles) in one trip (2 weeks) in my Civic a couple of years back and never needed no cup
holder. It's mostly an American thing. Come to think of it, only one of the 7 cars I've had had a cup holder and I don't remember
ever using them. And when we was kids, we treated our cars right, no food or drink in the car, unlike friend whose 2 week old Honda
smells like a burger joint.

One can seriously dehydrate in as little as 20 minutes under these conditions.

You gotta be kidding! That's news to me in my experience! Heck, my brother crossed Death Valley in the daytime a couple of times, NO
AC, just some water, but then we're made of sterner stuff.

Maybe you should travel in the U.S. before making assumptions about the habits of American drivers.

Ha!

cp

 

[cp]

Ah, but if they can't get the cupholders right, how can you have any confidence in the complicated bits and pieces?!

Don't know; of the 7 cars I've had I've just realized only one had a cup holder, don't remember using it.

cp

 

[Losiho]

"Losiho"

Are you the same Losiho that posts on BITOG?



Cheers,

Pete

BITOG ? What's that ? Sounds like a mental institution for engine oil nuts