Shopping for my first Volvo

I'm in the Austin TX area and I need a little information.

Will a pre-Ford model be more reliable than a post-Ford model? One
camp in the household thinks we should spend upwards of $30k to get a
late-model dealer certified car with some portion of the original
warranty remaining. The other camp in the household thinks an older,
pre-Ford model will in the long run be more reliable, if perhaps not
so posh or shiny; plus it'll save us as much as $20k!

Comments? Diatribe?

Additional info: I do my own routine maintenance. I farm out any
major or heavy work and I trust my mechanic.

 

Used Volvos go for a premium in "Keep It Wierd" Austin. If you have a
friend in Houston or Dallas to help get a pre-purchase inspection on a
vehicle in those markets, you can save a lot off the purchase price.
On-line sales (ebay, etc.), with a pre-purchase inspection from a qualified
Volvo mechanic are very sensible. Do not buy used without a qualified
pre-purchase inspection, because Volvos are designed and built with the
expectation that basic maintenance will be followed. If you follow the
maint schedule, it will last forever (or at least until you're tired of it).
If you don't follow the maint schedule, you can't pass Go, you can't collect
200 dollars....

As long as speed/performance is not your main criteria, a well-maintained
240 from 1988 - 1993 (last year) is the best car built for price/performance
ever built. (Period). They handle pretty well, and steering/suspension is
easily upgraded. Austin has plenty qualified Volvo shops to do it right
(and plenty to do it wrong, so do your homework). Comfort is great. If you
have some worn out seats, www.ipdusa.com can fix you up with new foam and
covers. Most basic maintenance you can do yourself, or if you are not a
DIY'er, you can find a good Volvo mechanic in Austin other than the dealer
who is reasonable.

If you think the 240 is a little too "old-school", then you can walk on the
wild side with a 940, which is really a 240 with a nicer looking body and
some cosmetic luxury upgrades for a few dollars more, but still from the
early '90s vintage. If you really want to swing out with more performance,
get a 940-turbo, but pay close attention to that pre-purchase inspection and
a solid owner's manual with date-stamped maintenance to make sure the turbo
is still in good operation.

If you meet all of these recommendations, you can find a car under $3,000,
with less than $1,000 per year (average) maintenance costs, excluding brakes
every 3 years or so.

If 20-yr-old Volvos bother you, then I recommend the S60 of their new
lineup. I don't know much about the SUVs. The new lineups, understandably,
cost a whole lot more to purchase, and you will have to have more work done
by the very expensive dealership, because diagnostic technology and
specialty tools are cost-prohibitive anywhere else.

A possible compromise is the mid- to late-90's 850 model, but this is much
more like the S60 than the 240.

 

So I've noticed.

Friends in one, family in the other. Buying a car in either area
would give us an excuse to spend a weekend with folks we don't see all
that often.

Buying cars on Ebay? Surely you jest? How would one go about
verifying the credentials of the mechanic, let alone ensuring the
inspection is done? Does one travel to collect a car with the
understanding that if it doesn't pass inspection once one is on the
ground to supervise the seller reimburses the (now non-buyer) for
airfare? Do I seem skeptical of the whole proposition?

Never have bought a car without an inspection, even a new one. Last
new car I didn't buy stayed at the dealer because my mechanic found a
major problem with the drivetrain.

Bling is not my thing. Speed is nice I'm after dependability. A car
I buy now has to be my daily driver for at least 10 years and
preferably longer.

What will I be spending my annual grand on that isn't oil and filters
plus routine consumables?

New is out of our budget. Newish would probably be a 2003-2005 V50
T5. There's a sweet '05 wagon in San Antonio right now but it isn't a
dealer certified pre-owned. The "buy newish with warranty" camp
doesn't like the prospect of dropping $25k on an unwarranted vehicle
and I can't say I do either. If I want it I'd better get moving,
though...

I don't know much about the SUVs. The new lineups, understandably,

A couple of the certified Volvo places around Austin have UTD codes,
or so goes the rumor. And as I said, I trust my mechanic - not only
to do correctly the work I ask him to do, but to tell me when he
can't.

Thanks for all the solid info!

 

Getting a qualified pre-purchase inspection on an out of town car will
depend on your friend/family in Houston/Dallas (i.e., someone you already
trust to line up someone who is already qualified). That's what will make
an online (ebay, etc.) purchase very viable. If it doesn't pass a
trustworthy inspection, pass on the deal.

Annual regular maint less than $1,000 average includes new timing belt every
60,000, new tires about every 50,000 - 60,000, fuel filter about every 2 - 3
yrs (stinky job you may want mechanic to handle), sparks and wires and rotor
and cap, air filter, either learn to clean the throttle body and crankcase
screen every 6 months or pay someone. Brake master cylinder around 5 yrs.
Air mass meter once or twice over car life. Battery every 3 - 5 yrs. New
muffler, catalytic converter around 7 yrs. A water pump maybe sometime
(best done at same time as timing belt replacement). New shocks around 7 -
8 yrs., new suspension bushings and steering tie rods and ball joints around
9 - 10 yrs, new A/C compressor and drier/accumulator and refrigerant around
10 yrs., new hoses and belts around 7 yrs. If the original radiator with
weak plastic neck has not been replace with a stronger metal neck, this will
go for around $300 - $400 with parts,labor, fluid. May or may not need to
replace wiring harnesses with crumbling insulation on the wires. I
recommend sticking with 1988 or newer models, as I've heard this was
improved that year. These are all basis wear and tear items common to just
about all cars, but are fairly durable on a Volvo 240 if the car maintenance
is being kept up-to-date. $1,000/yr average is very little, over the life
of a car after it's 3 yrs old. If you can find another car with less
average maint cost than all the above, please post to this frugal group - we
are wanting to know.

And, the mother of all repairs on the 240, the $120 interior fan (blows
heater air, refrigerated air to the passenger cabin). Experienced repair
estimators would rather total the car than pay for this job. It is the
worst bonehead design on the whole car for a cheap part replacement. It's
easier to get a divorce and marry a new mate but beware you'll need to do it
again in about 10 yrs.

 

Then a 240 or 740 is right up your alley. Practically run forever and
pretty easy to fix yourself. I know of 240s with 350,000+ miles on
them. Mine has 175,000 and I figure I'll have it at least another 5
years barring some catastrophic event.

 

I know a bunch of people who have bought cars on ebay. When you're spending
just a few thousand dollars it's not really a big deal, in this case they
were older 240s and all turned out to be pretty much as expected, an old 240
in need of some TLC which turned them into respectable cars for a very
reasonable total investment.

 

You know, I've heard this a lot, and granted it's not a simple job, but it's
not nearly as hard as some would have you believe. The first one I did took
me around 5 hours from start to finish, and that included having to figure
out a way to get the rusted nut off the motor shaft. I've got it down to
less than 4 hours now and that's without taking the shortcut of cutting
holes in the blower housing. It's one heck of a lot easier than replacing
the sagging headliner in a 700 sedan, I speak from experience. You just have
to pull the dash out (about a dozen screws), pull the console panel out (4
screws and 2 clips), pull the side panels which will now be loose, remove
the 4 screws and pull the frame off from the center console, then you can
take out the screws and clips to get the side panels off the blower housing
and get into the motor. It looks scary but take it one step at a time and
put the screws in labelled bags and it should go pretty smoothly.

 

The Ford thing didn't make much of a difference. Each year stands or
fails on its own merits. The Ford acquisition of Volvo was in 1999.
There are good ones before that and good ones after that.

Here are some good ones:

* VOLVO 240 '91 & '92
* VOLVO 940 '94 & '95
* VOLVO 850 '95 - '97
* VOLVO S40/V40 '01 - '02
* VOLVO S60 '01-'05 (the 2002, 2005 & 2005 S60 are VERY reliable)
* VOLVO S60AWD '04-'05 (the 2004 & 2005 S60(AWD) are VERY reliable)
* VOLVO V70 '99-00, '03 (the 1999 & 2000 V70 are VERY reliable)
* VOLVO S80 '04 (the 2004 S80 is VERY reliable)
* VOLVO S80AWD '04 (the 2004 S80AWD is VERY reliable)

And some bad ones:

* VOLVO 960 '95-97
* VOLVO V40 '00
* VOLVO V50 '05
* VOLVO S60AWD '03
* VOLVO C70 '00, '04
* VOLVO V70 '01 '02
* Volvo V70XC '98
* VOLVO S80 '99-02
* VOLVO S90/V90 '98
* VOLVO XC90 '03-05

This is based on a large sampling. Individual experiences will vary.

 

Ok maybe. I'll grant that it could work, but I remain skeptical. I
suppose I'd better do some research.

<snip long list>

Different nomenclature and accounting systems. Some of the things
you've got classed under "routine" fall under "major" in my system,
but that's OK. All the things you list happen to my Fords as well but
under different ledger headings.

Yank the dash AND the engine? One of the reasons I'm retiring the
current Ford early is an issue with the way one of the two timing
belts has to be replaced and the expense associated therewith. And
one of the reasons I'm not terribly hip on buying another Ford is the
how and why I ended up with with this particular engine that requires
such an expensive procedure for what shouldn't be.

 

What specifically is not good? I have my eye on this very model/year
at the moment but I'm willing to be persuaded...

 

WHO said you have to pull the engine to replace the cabin fan? Slow
down, dude. I have replaced two cabin fans and, while it's a PITA, it
ain't all that difficult. While I have pulled a 240 engine or two, it
was to replace it from one parts car to another. Never did so in order
to replace the cabin fan.

 

Dude, it was a joke along the lines of "easier to get a divorce"...

 

Hi Steve,

Your very knowledgeable contribution much appreciated , as usual,
but.............................................................!

Re your list of "good ones" you include the '91 & '92 240. What's wrong
with the '93 240 I've been driving for 14 years?!

Andy I. ( '58 445 wagon; '65 122S wagon; '67 121 2-Door Import; '74 142; '74
145 wagon; '86 245 wagon; '93 245 "Classic" wagon.




:
: > Will a pre-Ford model be more reliable than a post-Ford model? One
: > camp in the household thinks we should spend upwards of $30k to get a
: > late-model dealer certified car with some portion of the original
: > warranty remaining. The other camp in the household thinks an older,
: > pre-Ford model will in the long run be more reliable, if perhaps not
: > so posh or shiny; plus it'll save us as much as $20k!
:
: The Ford thing didn't make much of a difference. Each year stands or
: fails on its own merits. The Ford acquisition of Volvo was in 1999.
: There are good ones before that and good ones after that.
:
: Here are some good ones:
:
: * VOLVO 240 '91 & '92
: * VOLVO 940 '94 & '95
: * VOLVO 850 '95 - '97
: * VOLVO S40/V40 '01 - '02
: * VOLVO S60 '01-'05 (the 2002, 2005 & 2005 S60 are VERY reliable)
: * VOLVO S60AWD '04-'05 (the 2004 & 2005 S60(AWD) are VERY reliable)
: * VOLVO V70 '99-00, '03 (the 1999 & 2000 V70 are VERY reliable)
: * VOLVO S80 '04 (the 2004 S80 is VERY reliable)
: * VOLVO S80AWD '04 (the 2004 S80AWD is VERY reliable)
:
: And some bad ones:
:
: * VOLVO 960 '95-97
: * VOLVO V40 '00
: * VOLVO V50 '05
: * VOLVO S60AWD '03
: * VOLVO C70 '00, '04
: * VOLVO V70 '01 '02
: * Volvo V70XC '98
: * VOLVO S80 '99-02
: * VOLVO S90/V90 '98
: * VOLVO XC90 '03-05
:
: This is based on a large sampling. Individual experiences will vary.
: --
: Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA, USA
: Owned '67,'68,'71,'74,'79,'81,'87,'93,'95 & '01 Volvos.
: The '67,'74,'79,'87,'95 and '01 through European Delivery.
: http://rhodyman.net/homevo.html

 

I don't believe in divorces either.

 

Bad is a relative term. Statistically it has not been as good as the
average cars of today. That is not to say it is a lemon, but that it is
easy to do better. The problems most reported were primarily in the
fuel and electrical systems. Much worse than previous years. Fuel
systems typically have a 2% problem rate for 2005 and electical systems
have a 4% problem rate for 2005. The long term reliability will
probably be good, but the problem rate is over twice as high as typical
for that year.

 

Ok, thanks for the clarification. Still haven't bought anything, mostly
because the Other Camp is still fixating on a Big Shiny New Car (with a
pricetag to match!).

 

No. Ford ownership of Volvo has nothing at all to do with the
reliability of their vehicles. Ford bought Volvo Cars in 1998.

A 20 year old car is a 20 year old car is a 20 year old car and no
magic can offset the impact of that much wear. My suggestion would be
to buy either a very late model low milage car with warranty, or just
buy a new one. In either case plan to hold it for 300,000 miles and
reap the substantial benefit of spreading the cost of a new car over a
lot of driving.

Doing your own maintenance works IF you are willing to do the many
checks and parts replacement a Volvo mechanic would do at each
scheduled maintenance. Doing nothing but oil changes and door lock
lubes and otherwise waiting for something to break before fixing is
not a good way to save money.

 

The jury is still out on whether Volvos built after the *40 series will be
good for 300,000+ miles. I suspect the 8* and S series will mostly be good
for the usual 150-200,000 miles expected from a well maintained car.

 

There is nothing that I've read that would indicate that a well
maintained later model Volvo will not run for 300,000 miles or more.
There is nothing mysterious about keeping a car running for hundreds
of thousands of miles. Just stay up with all of the maintenance and
fix problems as they occur.

 

Steve,
I noticed the S70 wasn't listed in either category. Is that because of a
lack of data? We are looking at a 2000 S70 for our 18-year-old son.
153,000 miles. Any opinions/guesses as to reliability?

Thanks