strange stumbling/backfiring problem

Discussion in 'General Motoring' started by Mark Edgley, Nov 7, 2003.

  1. Mark Edgley

    Mark Edgley Guest

    This is not exactly a follow-up to the thread begun on Nov. 3 by Mark
    Stonecipher, but my version of maybe the same thing, which is not yet
    resolved.

    I have a 1986 240 DL wagon (Canadian model) with 382,000 km on it, and
    it is the fuel-injected model, with the air mass flow meter. As I
    read the Haynes manual, this is the 230F engine with the LH Jetronic
    2.2 fuel injection system. It has had a recurrent problem with
    stumbling and backfiring. Now that it's colder, does it nearly
    every day. The symptoms sound similar to what Mark described, but
    with a twist. Every morning the car starts fine, and will accelerate
    fine if you apply the gas slowly, but only up to a certain point.
    Then it bogs down and if you press harder on the gas, it backfires.
    The twist is that if you drive it this way until it warms up and then
    shut it off for 10 or 15 seconds and restart it, it runs fine!
    Absolutely fine! Lots of power, good passing gear, no hesitation! If
    you then park it and let it cool down, it misbehaves again when you
    start it up.

    I have had it worked on twice for the bogging down and backfiring, to
    the accumulated tune of nearly $1000 now, and it is not fixed. Both
    fuel pumps and the fuel pressure regulator and the engine thermostat
    have been replaced, the throttle body has been serviced, and both a
    new ignition computer and a new air mass flow meter have been
    installed temporarily (neither fixed the problem).

    The last thing the last mechanic (a Volvo dealership) wanted to do was
    try a fuel computer (which apparently costs much more than the car is
    worth), and I demurred.

    Anybody got a clue? The turning it off and back on fix is a bit
    tantalizing - it seems to me as if some running state is being set
    when you start it cold, which doesn't work right, and only if you shut
    it off and back on once warm does it get set correctly. I have to
    point out that merely warming up does NOT solve the problem - you
    actually have to shut the engine off, but really only for 10 or 15
    seconds. I saw from the Stonecipher thread that someone suggested the
    fuel pump relay - does this sound like that?

    Also - are the fuel computer and ignition computer different beasts?

    And where is the fuel pump relay and how does one test it?

    Many thanks for any hints.

    Edge
     
    Mark Edgley, Nov 7, 2003
    #1
  2. Mark Edgley

    Mike F Guest

    My thought on this is there is something loose in the exhaust system
    that blocks the flow, and can fall out of the way when it's warm and
    there's no exhaust pressure on it.
     
    Mike F, Nov 7, 2003
    #2
  3. Mark Edgley

    James Sweet Guest

    Has anyone tested or replaced the coolant temperature sensor for the
    injection? Also when it's cold does unplugging the air mass meter make any
    difference? I suppose it could have a cracked solder joint in it.
     
    James Sweet, Nov 7, 2003
    #3
  4. Mark Edgley

    David Guest

    I have nearly the same symptoms, except I don't have to turn it off for
    10 or 15 seconds. Otherwise it sounds identical.

    In my case, at the very instant the coolant temp gauge shows full temp
    the engine gets a surge of power (well, comparatively at least :) and
    runs normally. And not at a hair under full temp. If you shut the engine
    off for 3 minutes to run in the store the symptoms return, but only for
    a short time since full temp is resumed very quickly.

    I have suspected and others have suggested the AMM. However, that's what
    everyone says when the engine runs poorly and there are no better
    ideas...

    So is there a way to open the AMM to check for and repair cracked solder
    joints (without destroying the unit obviously) ?

    Also, is the temp sensor that runs the injection the same one that
    runs the gauge on the dash ? If not, which is which ? I think I know
    which one runs the gauge, under the intake manifold near the
    center of the engine, I think it has a yellow wire.
     
    David, Nov 16, 2003
    #4
  5. Mark Edgley

    Mike F Guest

    You're right regarding the gauge sender. Assuming you have a B230F, the
    sensor for the injection is under the intake runner for the 4th
    cylinder. It has the same electrical connetor as the injectors, the
    body is either blue or black depending on year.
     
    Mike F, Nov 17, 2003
    #5
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