Which one of these cars are the safest, and which one should I get?

  • Thread starter Thread starter The Diesel
  • Start date Start date
That is what I found most troubling about The Diesel's first inquiry.
He seems so paranoid about driving in anything, worried about rollovers, gas
tanks being punctured, etc. that I fear he'll never *enjoy* a minute of
driving.

That's an important point. I drive my convertible with the top down
whenever I can. In a rollover, I'm probably screwed. Still, like
Nissan says, I "enjoy the ride". In fact, on a warm day, I look
for places to go and try to prolong the ride.
 
To correct you about Seat's, they are Spanish VW's to be more accurate, as
they are owned by VAG (Volkswagen Auto Group) and all their cars used VW
frames.

I've been in Portugal, which is the neighbouring country, and no one in my
family found it scary to drive there, or be driven around.
 
David Taylor said:
(a

So you were stationary perpendicular across the carriageway? What else
happened prior to this?

Who said anything about stationary? Very briefly the sequence went as
follows. (For those who might not know, in the UK we drive on the left).

1. I was travelling at 70 in the inside lane;
2. Said 4x4 was travelling in outside lane, at something more than 70;
3. Something happened to 4x4 (I never got to ask what) that made it veer
violently left;
4. I was in the way;
5. After side impact from 4x4, the Volvo rolled five times, coming to rest
in a field some distance off the carriageway;
6. It hurt, but I lived.

Bill
 
To correct you about Seat's, they are Spanish VW's to be more accurate, as
they are owned by VAG (Volkswagen Auto Group) and all their cars used VW
frames.

Maybe now...but not when I lived in Spain (early 70's when Franco was
dictator).

Seats were Fiats at the time.

Franco imposed a 100% duty on any foreign car imported into Spain at
the time. He allowed us American's to import one car of our choice
duty free...if we swore we would not sell it to a Spaniard.
 
Rob said:
Ah, interesting thing to know - were they ever there own company? :-).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SEAT

SEAT is one of the leading car makers in Spain. It was founded in the
year 1950 as subsidiary of Fiat, with an important share of the Spanish
Government. After the withdrawal of Fiat, the Volkswagen Group, through
its parent company VAG, became in the year 1986 the major shareholder,
and in 1990 owner of a 100% of the company.

The acronym "SEAT" means Sociedad Española de Automóviles de Turismo
(Spanish Corporation of Private Cars).

Please, while at wikipedia, learn the fine skill of bottom posting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_posting
 
Air bag are only effective when they deploy during a frontal
collision.


mike hunt
 
While one is riding in a convertible, they are many times more
likely to have a bird $#it on their head than they
are of being becoming involved in a rollover. ;)


mike hunt
 
Merely responding to your post that said "My buddy had been hit
at 60kmh by a front-end loader that backed into the
intersection..."


mike hunt
 
I don't know what archaic newsreader you have, or maybe the way mine posts,
and ends up being interpreted by yours in an incorrect fashion is the
problem. But on mine all my posts are in the correct order, using MS Outlook
Express. I hit reply to group on the message I am reading, and my post goes
below it...

I've never seen a problem with "top posting" the way it was shown on that
website... Except when I tried another newsreader program (when I was trying
out Linux a year ago).
 
I don't know what archaic newsreader you have, or maybe the way mine posts,
and ends up being interpreted by yours in an incorrect fashion is the
problem. But on mine all my posts are in the correct order, using MS Outlook
Express. I hit reply to group on the message I am reading, and my post goes
below it...

I've never seen a problem with "top posting" the way it was shown on that
website... Except when I tried another newsreader program (when I was trying
out Linux a year ago).

Ah. I see. You have a different definition of top-posting than that
which is used conventionally. Here's the conventional definition:
<http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html>
 
[[email protected]] (Wed, 16 Jun 2004 19:55:53 -0400):
Air bag are only effective when they deploy during a frontal
collision.

Thank you for quoting over 300 lines of text to add two lines.. (And for
top-posting).

Side-airbags are also effective when being struck from the side.. ;)
 
Your welcome!


mike hunt


Thank you for quoting over 300 lines of text to add two lines.. (And for
top-posting).

Side-airbags are also effective when being struck from the side.. ;)

Air bag are only effective when they deploy during a frontal
collision.


mike hunt
 
Rob said:
I don't know what archaic newsreader you have, or maybe the way mine posts,

Your newsreader is posting just the same way as mine. It is just the way
you write your comment in the very beginning of the text instead after
the piece of text that you intend to comment on.
and ends up being interpreted by yours in an incorrect fashion is the
problem. But on mine all my posts are in the correct order, using MS Outlook
Express.

Not everyone is so lucky. My computer does not run the Express news
program. I have to use ordinary news. :-) I do not have an expert
maintaining the adware safety and viral cleanliness of my home
computers, so I only run Linux on the computers that are connected
to Internet.

MS Outlook Express is not available on Linux, so I have to use
Mozilla. I have grown so used to it that I also use Mozilla on
my Windows machines at work. There the Windows machines are
professionally maintained by dedicated system administrators, running
new patches almost daily.

My friends who are running Windows from home have had their share of
adware, spyware and viruses. Some have had spambots without them
knowing. Actually, almost most of the junk e-mail is generated by
innocent people unknowingly giving spammers a full access to their
unpatched Windows computers with ADSL.
I hit reply to group on the message I am reading, and my post goes
below it...

You are referring to a concept called threading, not bottom
posting.
I've never seen a problem with "top posting" the way it was shown on that

Perhaps you might want to read the links again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_posting

If I had written all these comments in the beginning of this mail, I
would have been top-posting. Instead, I chose to bottom-post, because
there is an improved flow of discussion between your text and mine.
website... Except when I tried another newsreader program (when I was
trying out Linux a year ago).

I have used Mac, Unix, Linux and Windows-based newsreaders for about
16 years (not all of them for that long, of course!). All have had the
capabilities of threading. I believe that most readers default to
threading so you just unluckily picked a wrong reader. Try Mozilla or
Firebird the next time. Mozilla is a good thing on Windows, too,
both in security and usability. Especially middle clicking and tabs
are just great.

But back to subject,
My vote on car safety goes to Volvo S80/V70, Lexus LS, and the
larger Mercedes.
 
Who said anything about stationary? Very briefly the sequence went as
follows. (For those who might not know, in the UK we drive on the left).

Ouch, was just trying to work out the situation. :)
 
Ah, interesting thing to know - were they ever there own company? :-).

As I understand it...

Franco struck a deal with Fiat to build Fiat's in Spain by Spaniards
and re label them Seats.

So in the time I was in Spain (early 70's)...Seat was a Spanish built
Fiat.

Franco was very Pro Spain. If you were going to do business then a
Spaniard had to be a partner.

There was 100 percent employment during those times.

....and you could go anywhere in Spain without fear of any kind of
bodily harm. Dictators are not always bad...
 
I won't totally disagree, but hold on a second...
Forget the Volvo; Volvo's reputation for crash safety is overblown,

I don't think "overblown" is quite fair. If I'm going to have an
horriffic smash (y'know, where an SUV crosses the highway and hits the
front corner of my car at 220kmh closing speed, sending me into a spin
across 2 lanes of traffic and a rollover into a ditch) , I know what
cars I'd like to be in: Volvo, Mercedes, BMW, Saab and at a pinch,
Toyota. Minor accidents around town - it probably doesn't matter much.
Older Volvos are probably no better than new Toyotas, because other
manufacturers tend to follow with near-identical safety systems
(Toyota's "Safe-T-Cell" for example) but comparing present model with
present model, Volvo wins. But the gap between Volvo and "common" cars
is shrinking. The gap between Volvo and the German cars is quite small.

What sold me on Volvo? I know that the Volvo salespeople are going to
be biased on safety, but my local dealer often has photos of crashed
Volvos to view. These are from people who walked away with grazes,
bruises and the odd broken bone, and have come in to replace their
smashed car with a new one. These are photos of cars that have been hit
at high speed by trucks, have run into cows, and have been in head-on
accidents with other cars (where the occupants of the other car all
died). It's pretty powerful advertising. I'm sure that some other car
dealers could do the same (Mercedes, for example).

But it all depends on the accident you have. Just hope that you never
need that kind of protection.
and the cars aren't that reliable and parts are expensive.

Not my experience. All cars have minor problems from time to time.
There are plenty of people driving Volvos that have travelled 400,000 to
500,000km that have spent no money apart from regular servicing.
GM has said that about 95% of a car's safety is in its crash avoidance
ability, but they also found that most people exploited only half of a
vehicle's maneuverability (I have no idea how they defined "half").
The most important crash survival criteria is probably head injury
(HIC, Head Impact Criteria, expressed on a points scale), but I don't
know what comes next -- chest force, leg force, or side HIC.

Yep, that's a weird measurement - half. Sometimes I'm accused of using
150% (-: I agree totally with the importance of avoiding a crash in the
first place. It's far better not to ever use features like crumple
zones, roll bars, seat belt pretensioners. A heavy, under-powered car
with poor steering and bad suspension is more likely to be involved in
an accident. Add a poor or nervous driver behind the weel and it's
worse. So I'd avoid anything too old (worn suspension) and too
underpowered. But if an S80 is on the list of possibilities, I'd say go
for it.

One of my irritations with Volvo (and all cars in fact) is that some of
those active safety systems designed to get you out of trouble (traction
control, variable damped suspension and weight distribution etc etc)
aren't standard on lower-end models. It costs more.
Personally, I'd buy the Pontiac/Toyota because it's a 4-door hatchback
with large cargo capacity, but gas mileage is significantly worse
than that of its near twin, the Corolla sedan.

Well, don't expect great fuel economy from an S80 (-:

Chris
 
Half said:
I won't totally disagree, but hold on a second...


I don't think "overblown" is quite fair. If I'm going to have an
horriffic smash (y'know, where an SUV crosses the highway and hits the
front corner of my car at 220kmh closing speed, sending me into a spin
across 2 lanes of traffic and a rollover into a ditch) , I know what
cars I'd like to be in: Volvo, Mercedes, BMW, Saab and at a pinch,
Toyota. Minor accidents around town - it probably doesn't matter much.
Older Volvos are probably no better than new Toyotas, because other
manufacturers tend to follow with near-identical safety systems
(Toyota's "Safe-T-Cell" for example) but comparing present model with
present model, Volvo wins. But the gap between Volvo and "common" cars
is shrinking. The gap between Volvo and the German cars is quite small.

I drive up and down a stretch of motorway every day. Accidents is an
incredible common occurrence. In one particular week I was queuing in
the morning AND in the evening every day to get past accidents. On
some days I had to find alternative routes, i.e. the motorway became
unusable for it's purpose at shifting traffic. Accidents are more
survivable these days as cars are much better, in most cases you just
get crumbled cars but inevitably large upsets in people's lives. I've
seen people standing on the hard shoulder crying! It just makes me
wonder how and why it happens, and why so regularly?
 
Johannes said:
I drive up and down a stretch of motorway every day. Accidents is an
incredible common occurrence. In one particular week I was queuing in
the morning AND in the evening every day to get past accidents. On
some days I had to find alternative routes, i.e. the motorway became
unusable for it's purpose at shifting traffic. Accidents are more
survivable these days as cars are much better, in most cases you just
get crumbled cars but inevitably large upsets in people's lives. I've
seen people standing on the hard shoulder crying! It just makes me
wonder how and why it happens, and why so regularly?

Judging the traffic I'm in every morning, I actually wonder the opposite.
Seeing all these cars at 120+ km/h with more often than not less than 5m of
space between them, makes me wonder why it's doesn't go wrong more often.

If an accident does occur it usualy involves a commercial van (like Peugeot
Partners, VW Transporters, Mercedes Sprinters), that underestimate their
reaction time and their decelleration rate.

Tailgating is a big pest around here, but despite this the police only focus
on people exceeding the speed limit, because that generates much more money.
In fact our government has ordered the police to issue more fines.

Mark
 
Mark said:
[...]

Judging the traffic I'm in every morning, I actually wonder the opposite.
Seeing all these cars at 120+ km/h with more often than not less than 5m of
space between them, makes me wonder why it's doesn't go wrong more often.

If an accident does occur it usualy involves a commercial van (like Peugeot
Partners, VW Transporters, Mercedes Sprinters), that underestimate their
reaction time and their decelleration rate.

Tailgating is a big pest around here, but despite this the police only focus
on people exceeding the speed limit, because that generates much more money.
In fact our government has ordered the police to issue more fines.

The tailgaters are probably the same who will speed. After all, tailgating
suggests that they're not satisfied with the prevailing speed and wants
to move faster. They usually get their way since nobody is keen on getting
their car shortened. Then there are those who deliberately cuts across lanes
millimeters in front of you, usually someone in a souped up car. Then there
are also those, when overtaking at very fast differential speed, move as
far as possible towards your lane to let you feel the whoosh. Just had one
of those today. All this is immature bad driving that ought to be stamped
out. BMW drivers usually annoy me the most, but then I stay calm and lets
nothing affect my driving. I don't know those people, don't want to know
them, hence no reason to impress them or otherwise.
 
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