240 Question

[Myron Samila]

I would think that would've been clear by now. 1989 240 wagon, 137,100 miles.
It replaced my 1986 240 wagon which replaced my 1983 240 wagon, neither of
which was even remotely near "used up" when I let them go.

Didn't read the rest of your post. Sure it was thrilling, though.

Yeah, you only mentioned it once I believe in all your posts, AFTER I posted my question.

Boy, lighten up.

 

[Myron Samila]

Since you haven't the first clue what he was looking for in this car, other
than it being a 240, you have no idea what you're talking about (for a change).

I'd assume for $12 it was low mileage and loaded, ummm? I broker specialty cars for
people on the side, want a Ferrari of a specific vintage? I'll find it for you, I also
auction off cars (mostly Italian of origin) on Ebay. Someone requests a 245 with Black
leather and white exterior with sunroof, how hard can that be to find? Like someone would
get picky trying to find an 11 year old car.

What qualifies you as a 240 expert other than you've owned a few?

 

[Myron Samila]

Headline: Death by the Gallon
Byline: James R. Healey
Dateline: July 2, 1999

considered a pollutant by the Environmental Protection Agency, which
regulates auto pollution. But those worried about global warming say
CO{-2} is a culprit and should be regulated via tougher CAFE rules."

Yeah....... but when you increase the concentration of CO2 and can't regulate it naturally
(trees,etc.), then we've got a problem.

I'd buy a small car anyday. Mind you, I've got a professional race license and know how
to avoid getting into an accident, although anything "can" happen.

I do love my Volvo, but I'd feel equally as safe driving a Toyota Echo hatchback.

Not everyone can afford to buy a brand new safe BIG car, and can't afford the fuel, nor
the insurance (more expensive car, more expensive insurance regardless off accident injury
payouts)

An entry level S60 is about $40,000 Canadian, a Toyota Echo base is $12,999 Canadian.
That is one hell of a gap, and the S40 isn't all that much cheaper.

The best way to survive an accident is never to get into one, which = a safe to drive car
(good handling, good braking, emergency handling, visibility etc.)

 

[Bill Bradley]

Actually, I'm telling the truth. If you choose to ignore it that's your
choice.

Um, first off I own both a 240 and Saab 900, two of the safest cars in
_actual_ accident data, ever. Neither one is over 3200 pounds (and
they're only that heavy both being Turbos loaded with power everything).
Bigger does not equal safer, heavier does not equal safer, more fuel
efficient _definitely_ does not equal safer.

Have you ever heard of this little place called... the rest of the
world? Amazingly enough little cars manage to be very safe in Europe,
Asia and any other place where they are not in danger of being run over
by distracted morons in 6000# jacked up SUVs. The safety problem is the
trucks and SUVs which do not comply with car bumper height requirements.
The auto makers are taking advantage of loopholes meant for
*commercial* vehicles [See Subaru making their cars into "trucks" by
jacking them up, avoiding CAFE restrictions and actually making the
vehicles *less safe*] The problem is not CAFE, the problem is "Soccer
Moms" driving vehicles classified as "non-passenger" vehicles.

No, you are missing my point, the new car is dangerous. Take out the 75 LTD
and put in another 95 Metro. The occupants in both cars then die. It's a
matter of physics, the mass of any vehicle and velocity colliding with
another mass. You have a mess no matter what. Obviously you would be better
protected in a larger car.

Sorry, but you have a *gross* misunderstanding of Physics. Take an
egg. Put it in a big metal box. Drop it from 12". Notice mess inside.
Take an foam or paper egg carton, repeat. Notice lack of broken egg.
The issue is *energy absorbtion* not mass. Crumple zones (energy
absorbion), side intrusion protection (energy absorbtion), seat belts
(energy absorbtion) and air bags (energy absorbtion) make vehicles
safer. It is far, far, far easier to design for impacts from particular
locations [see Standard Bumper Height point above] than random impacts.
The Geo safety does not depend on its weight it depends on its *design*

If CAFE is "forcing" smaller cars would you care to explain to me why
the Mercedes V8 S Class can beat almost all of the SUVs and minivans
(according to http://www.fueleconomy.gov) heck, even the 600hp
Twin-turbo V12 Maybach 62 beats quite a few of the Trucks and SUVs and
it weighs over 6000lbs! There are many ways to improve mileage without
effecting safety, weight is only one part. There are many ways to make
vehicles safer (to the occupants and other vehicles) weight is again
only one part of the equation.

The *real* issue is that cheap cars are just that... cheap, and as has
been proven time and time again safety doesn't sell in the US. GM has
made Air Conditioning and Automatic Transmissions *standard* features on
their cars, but passenger side air bags and Antilock brakes are extra
cost options. In Germany the Ford Focus comes *standard* with
electronic skid protection, good luck finding it in the US.

As has been said many, many times the business of auto manufacturers is
*making money*. If it is profitable [and legal] to make unsafe
vehicles, they will do so (see the cost analysis on antisway bars on
Corvairs or changing the fuel tank design on Pintos for two
famous/infamous examples). The answer is not less regulation, but more.
Odd that Sweden and Germany have some of the safest vehicles in the
world, isn't it? The reason is not that they are larger or gas hogs,
the reason is that they have to be to met domestic regulations.

Bill

 

[Bev A. Kupf]

Sorry, but you have a *gross* misunderstanding of Physics. Take an
egg. Put it in a big metal box. Drop it from 12". Notice mess inside.
Take an foam or paper egg carton, repeat. Notice lack of broken egg.
The issue is *energy absorbtion* not mass. Crumple zones (energy
absorbion), side intrusion protection (energy absorbtion), seat belts
(energy absorbtion) and air bags (energy absorbtion) make vehicles
safer. It is far, far, far easier to design for impacts from particular
locations [see Standard Bumper Height point above] than random impacts.

Bill -- your entire post was written eloquently and clearly. The reasons
you cite above are precisely why I consider the 850/S70 to be safer than
the 240 that they replaced (notwithstanding that you have a 240).

 

[Marshall Earp]

Um, first off I own both a 240 and Saab 900, two of the safest cars in
_actual_ accident data, ever. Neither one is over 3200 pounds (and
they're only that heavy both being Turbos loaded with power everything).
Bigger does not equal safer, heavier does not equal safer, more fuel
efficient _definitely_ does not equal safer.

Have you ever heard of this little place called... the rest of the
world?

Why are there so many ignorant assholes in this NG? I've been civil 'till
now, but the arrogant idiots here are getting to me.
And the BS that follows this is astounding, clearly you have not witnessed
many accident scenes. Ask those who have what vehicles are safer.
Fact is, if your family means so little to you that you would put them in an
unsafe vehicle that is your choice. I'm fine with that, you do have the
right to make that choice for you, I'm not planning on forcing anyone to do
the right thing.

 

[James Sweet]

wagon,

Where!?

I have not seen prices like that in Oregon, but maybe that's because there's so
many of them around here!

I see them getting more like 8-9k, but the problem is *finding* one in
really pristine condition, generally if they're in excellent shape, they're
not for sale. I can see the value of really nice late model 240's continuing
to rise for a bit as fewer and fewer of them are around.

All things aside, the 240 is still a very safe car, insurance companies love
one, and I'm sure I'll always own one. They're not the only good car out
there but they're the car for me.

 

[James Sweet]

Sorry. My 1990 240 had airbags and abs. It also would have been
easy to retrofit the doors as there was plenty of open space inside
for bars and anything else you want to stiffen them(in reality,
they hold up ten times better than the doors on a Dodge Neon).

240 doors already have rather heavy reinforcement bars in them, what's the
difference in the newer ones?

 

[Marshall Earp]

considered a pollutant by the Environmental Protection Agency, which
regulates auto pollution. But those worried about global warming say
CO{-2} is a culprit and should be regulated via tougher CAFE rules."

Yeah....... but when you increase the concentration of CO2 and can't regulate it naturally
(trees,etc.), then we've got a problem.

I'd buy a small car anyday. Mind you, I've got a professional race license and know how
to avoid getting into an accident, although anything "can" happen.

It's the drunk that takes the off ramp as an on ramp that gets 'em. /

I do love my Volvo, but I'd feel equally as safe driving a Toyota Echo hatchback.

Not everyone can afford to buy a brand new safe BIG car, and can't afford the fuel, nor
the insurance (more expensive car, more expensive insurance regardless off accident injury
payouts)

An entry level S60 is about $40,000 Canadian, a Toyota Echo base is $12,999 Canadian.
That is one hell of a gap, and the S40 isn't all that much cheaper.

My 245 cost me $300

The best way to survive an accident is never to get into one, which = a safe to drive car
(good handling, good braking, emergency handling, visibility etc.)

That's true enough.

Well, I'm outta here, I thought an auto group would be fun, but there's too
many jerks in here to bother sticking around. Sad really, I thought that
alt.autos.volvo would be a place where Volvo fans could get together and
have fun.
Thanks to those of you that are nice though!

 

[James Sweet]

- It gets lousy gas mileage (can you name another 115hp car that uses that
much fuel? An 850 *turbo* will get similar gas mileage)

A manual 240 gets about 28 mpg, that's not so bad is it? It may be only
115hp but it does well with what power it has IMO.

- It doesn't meet current emissions standards (no OBDII/EOBD)

So what? Is it not what comes out of the tailpipe that's important? There's
so much beurocratic BS involved in such things, some states even have visual
inspections under the hood. It's hard to argue though that the actual
emissions are the important part, and 240's tend to do quite well.

- It doesn't meet current safety standards (no dual airbags, no SIPS, any
sort of pedestrian safety standards)

Screw airbags, they're more trouble than they're worth, yes law requires
them for some reason, but doesn't seem to require the car itself to be
solidly built. Bottom line is serious injuries are relatively rare in 240's
and other Volvos of the age, haven't come across an insurance agent yet who
didn't recommend them for new drivers.

- Lousy electrical system (glass fuses suck
for the 13 or so fuses in a modern 240, a modern 850 has about 2-3x that,
plus the 240 has relays everywhere).

This can be an issue, can't say I've ever had much problem with them, but
then the climate is relatively mild here.

- Poor soundproofing

So what? It's a utilitarian car, turn up the radio.

- It's expensive to build.

Yeah, but so is anything high quality.

I'd say bring back the 95-98 960 and/or late model 760, but offer it with
the turbo 4, NA 5, and turbo six white block motors.. and ditch the
sliding piston front calipers. The late model 960 has all the amenities of
a modern car (nice rear suspension, nicer soundproofing, airbags, better
side impact protection, better HVAC, etc). The electrical system is
a lot more sane (blade type fuses, relay block, etc).> '89 765T, 172,7xx

mi

The 700's are excellent cars as well, more refined and luxurious, but more
complex with more to go wrong than a 240. I like them both but for different
reasons. I have mixed feelings on the white block motors, they're good
compared to many other motors on the market, but they're not quite as
bulletproof or as easy to work on as the red blocks. 240, 740 or 780 with
the turbo inline 6 would be a dream though.

 

[Joseph Oberlander]

Sorry. SIPS is not about building stronger doors. There were
reinforcements to the B pillar and the floor pan that could not have been
retrofitted to a 240.

They easily could have altered the doors and sides. They already were
stronger than most cars their size.

 

[Joseph Oberlander]

Right. But a $20,000 car back in the 80s would not be a $20,000 car now.
Try $40,000 or $50,0000.

$20,000 in 1990 translates to roughly $25K today.

The problem, though, is that the S40 was not the same indestructable
deal that the 240 was. The new S40 - why not just get a Mazda 3
series instead and save a huge amount of money?(sigh)

 

[Joseph Oberlander]

Say, you know what car company still makes a body style that everyone was DICTATED to love
and drive? The Russian built Lada 1600. It started life as a Fiat 124, and continued on
as a Lada, dah Comrad!

Morgan still makes their old cars as well, wood frame and all.

 

[Joseph Oberlander]

"Although federal anti-pollution regulations require that big cars
emit no more pollution per mile than small cars, environmental
activists seize on this: Small engines typical of small cars burn
less fuel, so they emit less carbon dioxide.

"Carbon dioxide, or CO2, is a naturally occurring gas that's not
considered a pollutant by the Environmental Protection Agency, which
regulates auto pollution. But those worried about global warming say
CO{-2} is a culprit and should be regulated via tougher CAFE rules."

The new Lexus Pseudo-SUV hybrid coming out next year is the
first real attempt to have both a larger vehicle and good
emissions and economy.

 

[Joseph Oberlander]

The vehicle performed very well in the side impact crash (score 16 out of 16). EuroNCAP
noted that this was remarkable for a car without side airbags.

The tests are against a barrier and at MOST, a car of simmilar
virtually nonexistant mass.

Put it up against a Buick Regal or Camry, both of which are pretty
mainstream "midsize" cars - and watch it crumple like a tin can.

 

[Joseph Oberlander]

A manual 240 gets about 28 mpg, that's not so bad is it? It may be only
115hp but it does well with what power it has IMO.





So what? Is it not what comes out of the tailpipe that's important? There's
so much beurocratic BS involved in such things, some states even have visual
inspections under the hood. It's hard to argue though that the actual
emissions are the important part, and 240's tend to do quite well.

Actually it does. I put a new cat in mine and it got 17ppm for HC and
NOx was 2. It passes the most stringent tests if it is in excellent
condition, like most cars.

I know of several of 1970's era cars that pollute under 50ppm because
they are in proper condition. Of course, this often requires a good
stock engine with stock equipment on it. You increase HP and add
mods to it, it's going to burn a lot more fuel per mile.

 

[PButler111]

Subject: Re: 240 Question

From: athol [email protected]
Date: 4/18/2004 9:33 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email protected]>


price.

I do. Actually, more 2-series fans, who bought 264s and 265s to put V8s
into.

So, in other words, you don't know any, either.

 

[PButler111]

I'd buy a small car anyday. Mind you, I've got a professional race

license and know how

Say, are you Dale Earnhardt? Oh, no -- that's right -- he's dead. I wonder
how that happened? I mean, he had a professional race license. Hmm...

 

[PButler111]

Subject: Re: 240 Question

From: "Myron Samila" [email protected]
Date: 4/18/2004 10:08 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email protected]>





Yeah, you only mentioned it once I believe in all your posts, AFTER I posted
my question.

Boy, lighten up.

Actually, I've mentioned it several times. And I'm not sure why you keep
trying to foist off a penis on me, but keep it for yourself. Sounds like you
need all you can get.

 

[PButler111]

I'd assume for $12 it was low mileage and loaded, ummm? I broker specialty

cars for
people on the side, want a Ferrari of a specific vintage? I'll find it for
you, I also
auction off cars (mostly Italian of origin) on Ebay. Someone requests a 245
with Black
leather and white exterior with sunroof, how hard can that be to find? Like
someone would
get picky trying to find an 11 year old car.

What qualifies you as a 240 expert other than you've owned a few?

Well, the obvious question is, what qualfies you? So far you haven't said
anything factual or even close to correct about them. The next question, then,
would have to be, when did I say I was a 240 expert?