Best Oil For Emission Control

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ron Reaugh
  • Start date Start date
Now now now, Huw, ease up on the ole girl! The D24T is a fairly good engine
design but has some german arrogance in it... thr 160k mark is because of
stuck rings, due to long oil change intervals. With good oil changed
regularily, you can easily see 250-300k without problems and WITHOUT rebuild
(a friend had his at 270k before some bad oil blew the rings). Soot in the
oil is no worse than on most other older light-vehicle diesel engines. 7500
miles on DINO oil is NOT reccomended -- 3000 is the max with a preferable
1500-2000 on an older engine. With synthetics, then you can push to 7500
but get some oil analysises done on the way.

I've never heard of a broken camshaft myself... just plenty of broken timing
belts. Gotta replace those FREQUENTLY! If the rings and timing belts are
taken care of, and regular routine maintenance is performed RELIGIOUSLY,
these things will go for a while unless they were not maintained. I have an
82 with 170k on the clock in my driveway that I have spent less than $100 on
in the past year and it's running strong but smoky. Using good DELO oil,
even at long change intervals (the car is a backup and life is swamped right
now) the thing just won't die. The only major maintenance I've done on it
in 8+ years of ownership has been a new starter.

Don't diss these engines too badly... the D24TIC (intercooled D24T from as
early as the 740 series) was produced all the way up until June of this
year, and the D30TIC is still being pushed out by VW/Audi. The baseline
1.6L 4-cyl diesel has evolved to the 1.9l TDI still being used in VW's
today... when the base engine was designed in the 60's. That should show
you how decent the design was.

-Mike
 
Soot in the
oil is no worse than on most other older light-vehicle diesel engines. 7500
miles on DINO oil is NOT reccomended -- 3000 is the max with a preferable
1500-2000 on an older engine. With synthetics, then you can push to 7500
but get some oil analysises done on the way.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't it be as important or more important to use a good diesel-rated
oil (e.g. API CH-4 or CI-4) in order to handle the soot?
 
Mike "Rotor" Nowak said:
Now now now, Huw, ease up on the ole girl! The D24T is a fairly good engine
design but has some german arrogance in it... thr 160k mark is because of
stuck rings, due to long oil change intervals. With good oil changed
regularily, you can easily see 250-300k without problems and WITHOUT rebuild
(a friend had his at 270k before some bad oil blew the rings).
Click to expand...

I have a friend who ran a fleet of LT's on country delivery routes who
regularly had failures every 120000 maximum where his Transit direct
injection engines went 250000 before attention. Admittedly these
engines were worked much harder than the average owner driven car.




Soot in the
oil is no worse than on most other older light-vehicle diesel engines.

True

7500
miles on DINO oil is NOT reccomended -- 3000 is the max with a preferable
1500-2000 on an older engine. With synthetics, then you can push to 7500
but get some oil analysises done on the way.
Click to expand...

Frankly whether an oil is synthetic or not is completely irrelevant at
these change intervals which are governed by soot contamination and
the oils ability to handle it. SHPD mineral oils have the ability to
handle soot and other contaminants as efficiently as the best
synthtics barring 60,000km oil and above rated to mb228.5 or better.


I've never heard of a broken camshaft myself... just plenty of broken timing
belts. Gotta replace those FREQUENTLY! If the rings and timing belts are
taken care of, and regular routine maintenance is performed RELIGIOUSLY,
these things will go for a while unless they were not maintained. I have an
82 with 170k on the clock in my driveway that I have spent less than $100 on
in the past year and it's running strong but smoky. Using good DELO oil,

even at long change intervals (the car is a backup and life is swamped right
now) the thing just won't die. The only major maintenance I've done on it
in 8+ years of ownership has been a new starter.
Click to expand...

Delo 400 mineral oil is an API CH4 oil equivelent to a mb228.3 SHPD
tier 1 oil, one step down from UHPD oils so can handle an amazing soot
load while lubricating effectively and leaving no deposits.



Don't diss these engines too badly... the D24TIC (intercooled D24T from as
early as the 740 series) was produced all the way up until June of this
year, and the D30TIC is still being pushed out by VW/Audi. The baseline
1.6L 4-cyl diesel has evolved to the 1.9l TDI still being used in VW's
today... when the base engine was designed in the 60's. That should show
you how decent the design was.
Click to expand...

Never renounced for longevity or refinement though.

Huw
 
I've never heard of a broken camshaft myself... just plenty of broken
timing
belts. Gotta replace those FREQUENTLY! If the rings and timing belts
are
taken care of, and regular routine maintenance is performed RELIGIOUSLY,
these things will go for a while unless they were not maintained. I
have an
82 with 170k on the clock in my driveway that I have spent less than
$100 on
in the past year and it's running strong but smoky. Using good DELO oil,
even at long change intervals (the car is a backup and life is swamped
right
now) the thing just won't die. The only major maintenance I've done on
it
in 8+ years of ownership has been a new starter.
Click to expand...

Every VW LT Diesel I can remember having anything to do with has snapped
at least one.
 
Duncan Wood said:
Every VW LT Diesel I can remember having anything to do with has snapped
at least one.
Click to expand...

A surprisingly high proportion seem to fail within 100,000 mile
intervals AFAICS. All in all this is not a reliable engine and never
has been. The failings are very well known, certainly here in the UK.

Huw
 
I would have to agree with someone above who said about a diesel oil... My
reasons in this are:

1) there is no true synthetic 10w-40 oil (castrol syntec, pennzoil, etc ARE
NOT TRUE PAO or ester synthetics) that youll find over the counter. Mobil 1
doesnt make one, and Redline does, but good luck finding that for under
$8/qt.

Your best bet is a diesel rated oil, either, in my order of choice:

Mobil Delvac 1300 super ($5.88/gal at walmart)
Pennzoil Long life
Chevron Delo 400
Shell Rotella T

These are designed to stand up to the issues in diesel engines. To my
knowledge there are no 10w-40 oils out there that are rated even API CF,
which is the Minimum you need to control soot. Soot is most liekly what has
either caused stuff to stick in your engine, or has caused your engine to
wear to the point that it just plain burns oil.

If youre set on a 10 wt oil, I would seriously consider using (I use it in
my 83 MB 300D diesel with 210k trouble free miles):

1/2 Mobil Delvac 1300 super
1/2 Mobil delvac 1 (synthetic diesel rated oil)

Thsi will keep things super clean, the 1300 has a shot of moly for wear
protection, and the delvac 1 has enhanced soot protection so soot loading
beyond 2% isnt an issue.

Otherwise, I would have to suggest
Mobil 1 15w-50 which is API CF (the correct minimum spec for your engine),
so it can handle soot loads to 2%, will keep things clean, and, contrary to
urban legends, will not cause your engien to leak, will clean it out a bit,
and may actually swell oil pan seals

DOnt be worried about using synth in an older car. I was using straight
Delvac 1 synthetic for a while around the 200k mark after only using dino
for the first 200K, and ther ewas no leaks or issues at all...

Hope this helps,

JMH



[email protected] (Ron Reaugh) wrote in
 
At the risk of asking a silly question I must know if all this advice
especially about diesel oil from walmart (Mobil Delvac) or pennzoil longlife
will be beneficial in a 87 and 88 240 DL but is gasoline run engines. I do
not have any real problems with burning oil just some leaking and the
numbers on E-test in the past have been good, but the recent one for the
1988 was close to our limits for curb idling:
HC ppm limit 200 reading 113ppm
CO% ppm limit 1.00 reading taken 0.73
in the other cat. where engine is run at 1599 rpm
HC ppm limit 71ppm - reading = 42ppm
CO% limit 0.40ppm - reading = 0.25ppm
NO ppm limit 805 reading = 182 note: test taken June 3rd 2003.
Software version 3.16
Here's my concerns I change oil at regular intervals every 3 months or
5000klms which ever comes first (usually it's done because of time passed -
not mileage)
has had new plugs wires rotor and cap in the last 14 months and not done
more than about 17,000klms of driving ago. The test with a brand new
catylitic convertor (not OEM) on January 15th 2001 went like this (no curb
idle taken at this time I think it may have not been required) also note
there was no rpm figure given at this test (read valid only)
HC ppm limit 80 reading 21
CO% ppm limit 0.45 reading 0.14
NO ppm limit 910 reading 41
with software version used 3.00
So what is happening here with the test showing alot more emissions escaping
tailpipe? Should I be thinking twice about spending anymore money on her or
think more about unloading her?

any and all advice most appreciated.

one category (was
 
Harrington said:
At the risk of asking a silly question I must know if all this advice
especially about diesel oil from walmart (Mobil Delvac) or pennzoil longlife
will be beneficial in a 87 and 88 240 DL but is gasoline run engines. I do
not have any real problems with burning oil just some leaking and the
numbers on E-test in the past have been good, but the recent one for the
1988 was close to our limits for curb idling:
HC ppm limit 200 reading 113ppm
CO% ppm limit 1.00 reading taken 0.73
in the other cat. where engine is run at 1599 rpm
HC ppm limit 71ppm - reading = 42ppm
CO% limit 0.40ppm - reading = 0.25ppm
NO ppm limit 805 reading = 182 note: test taken June 3rd 2003.
Software version 3.16
Here's my concerns I change oil at regular intervals every 3 months or
5000klms which ever comes first (usually it's done because of time passed -
not mileage)
has had new plugs wires rotor and cap in the last 14 months and not done
more than about 17,000klms of driving ago. The test with a brand new
catylitic convertor (not OEM) on January 15th 2001 went like this (no curb
idle taken at this time I think it may have not been required) also note
there was no rpm figure given at this test (read valid only)
HC ppm limit 80 reading 21
CO% ppm limit 0.45 reading 0.14
NO ppm limit 910 reading 41
with software version used 3.00
So what is happening here with the test showing alot more emissions escaping
tailpipe? Should I be thinking twice about spending anymore money on her or
think more about unloading her?

any and all advice most appreciated.
Click to expand...


Just use normal 10W30 oil and a quality filter, it's not a turbo so there's
no special requirements. If the emissions are getting worse try a tuneup,
new plugs and wires, cap, rotor, clean the throttle body, replace the flame
trap, run a bottle of fuel system cleaner through it, all that stuff
together should only cost you about $100 and no special tools or advanced
knowledge is required. Also fix the leak, if the flametrap is clean there's
only a few places where oil commonly leaks. These things should run pretty
much forever as long as they aren't neglected.
 
Hi James thanks for the advice, I'll probably do the tune up thing and
something else too. Another answer came directly to my inbox from (Tom
Chudzinskion) possibly a regular contributor from our newsgroup that read:
catyltic convertors begin aging instantly and collect sulfur deposits which
will increase the e-test readings, and he also suggested that I consider the
period in which to replace 02 sensor. here it is as received by me:

" It's not unusual at all to see the HC, CO, and NOx look excellent with a
new
catalytic converter but then see the readings rise as the catalytic
converter ages.
It's normal. If you live in an area where there is substantial amounts of
sulfur in
your gasoline, the sulfur will reduce its efficiency as it collects on the
substrate."

"You didn't mention changing your O2 sensor. Bad or aging O2 sensors are
the most common reason for emissions control failures and for high
readings."

"I can't understand if you own a Volvo from your post or if you are
referencing
a different car with the readings you posted. In any event O2 sensors from
the 1980's are 30,000 to 60,000 mile maintenance items and should be
replaced at the interval recommended in your owners manual. Not replacing
them will eventually prematurely burn out your catalytic converter(s) which
are usually much more expensive."

Tom Chudzinski
I am greatfull to all who have written me and the group as I am proud of
this newsgroup and the people here are great.

Sincerely,

Dan Harrington
Mississauga, Ontario Canada
88 245 DL 230,000klms
87 244DL 190,120klms
hoping that rust doesn't eat away at the frame and underbody cause I think
with some frequent TLC I could keep these two Bricks going, going, and going
again!
 
Hi James thanks for the advice, I'll probably do the tune up thing and
something else too. Another answer came directly to my inbox from (Tom
Chudzinskion) possibly a regular contributor from our newsgroup that read:
catyltic convertors begin aging instantly and collect sulfur deposits which
will increase the e-test readings, and he also suggested that I consider the
period in which to replace 02 sensor. here it is as received by me:

" It's not unusual at all to see the HC, CO, and NOx look excellent with a
new
catalytic converter but then see the readings rise as the catalytic
converter ages.
It's normal. If you live in an area where there is substantial amounts of
sulfur in
your gasoline, the sulfur will reduce its efficiency as it collects on the
substrate."

"You didn't mention changing your O2 sensor. Bad or aging O2 sensors are
the most common reason for emissions control failures and for high
readings."

"I can't understand if you own a Volvo from your post or if you are
referencing
a different car with the readings you posted. In any event O2 sensors from
the 1980's are 30,000 to 60,000 mile maintenance items and should be
replaced at the interval recommended in your owners manual. Not replacing
them will eventually prematurely burn out your catalytic converter(s) which
are usually much more expensive."

Tom Chudzinski
I am greatfull to all who have written me and the group as I am proud of
this newsgroup and the people here are great.

Sincerely,

Dan Harrington
Mississauga, Ontario Canada
88 245 DL 230,000klms
87 244DL 190,120klms
hoping that rust doesn't eat away at the frame and underbody cause I think
with some frequent TLC I could keep these two Bricks going, going, and going
again!
 
Hi James thanks for the advice, I'll probably do the tune up thing and
something else too. Another answer came directly to my inbox from (Tom
Chudzinskion) possibly a regular contributor from our newsgroup that read:
catyltic convertors begin aging instantly and collect sulfur deposits which
will increase the e-test readings, and he also suggested that I consider the
period in which to replace 02 sensor. here it is as received by me:

" It's not unusual at all to see the HC, CO, and NOx look excellent with a
new
catalytic converter but then see the readings rise as the catalytic
converter ages.
It's normal. If you live in an area where there is substantial amounts of
sulfur in
your gasoline, the sulfur will reduce its efficiency as it collects on the
substrate."

"You didn't mention changing your O2 sensor. Bad or aging O2 sensors are
the most common reason for emissions control failures and for high
readings."

"I can't understand if you own a Volvo from your post or if you are
referencing
a different car with the readings you posted. In any event O2 sensors from
the 1980's are 30,000 to 60,000 mile maintenance items and should be
replaced at the interval recommended in your owners manual. Not replacing
them will eventually prematurely burn out your catalytic converter(s) which
are usually much more expensive."

Tom Chudzinski
I am greatfull to all who have written me and the group as I am proud of
this newsgroup and the people here are great.

Sincerely,

Dan Harrington
Mississauga, Ontario Canada
88 245 DL 230,000klms
87 244DL 190,120klms
hoping that rust doesn't eat away at the frame and underbody cause I think
with some frequent TLC I could keep these two Bricks going, going, and going
again!
 
Ron said:
The smoke is rather marginal now and any small improvement would allow
passage. Light duty desiels are exempt in the US from normal emission
testing. So the question remains: What would be the lowest smoker 10-40
natural oil or 10-40 synthetic??
Click to expand...

Try the moly engine oil at www.theparsecgroup.com. If not "worn out" it can
reduce oil burning and perhaps allow passing of emissions test.

Old Geezer

'90 Beretta, 268 k miles, burns no oil and never a wrench on the engine. Used
moly oil since new.
 
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