More Typical Very Old Car Experience

  • Thread starter Thread starter JW
  • Start date Start date
You may be right, it might be a Maytag Neptune and not Calypso. I'm
continually using the wrong name.

Unfortunately, my new Kenmore washer was returned after delivery and
replaced by a new one. The computer had not been programmed properly
and the function "add a garment" was missing.

Btw, the Kenmore HE3T has 2 computers. One main CPU and a second one
whose only purpose is to control the electric motor making the drum
spins. That CPU gets so hot, it has a HUGE heat sink. Also,
replacing the main CPU will cost you $400 for the part alone, before
taxes and installation. That's not cheap in my book.

P.S. Get a HE3T, it's a wonderful beast weighting ~ 320 pounds and
has 4 shocks, 2 coil springs, 150 pounds of concrete and the drums
spins at 72MPH (1200RPM X diameter of drum).
 
If you like all the new bells & whistles and don't mind paying
someone to work on it when something breaks then go for it, others will
always prefer something a bit simpler with less to go wrong and the things
that do are better documented. My personal liking is for the 700/900 series
because I feel it's a very good compromise between simplicity, styling and
creature comforts. I still occasionally have an itch for a nice 850R wagon
but not enough to get rid of the two cars I already have, I feel rather
attached to them.
Click to expand...



I agree. It's funny, my participation in this topic started with me taking
exception to the author of the article that was skeptical of an older car
that "ran like a top". I know that there are many fine older cars out there
that are not a headache to keep in good repair.

Then someone said, yes, but try that with a modern car. I think the modern
ones are even better so I ended up arguing that. In the end, the Volvo's are
nicer cars than the domestics, no matter what year you are talking.
 
I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that the first few years of
production of the S80 did NOT have air bags that adjust depending on
any factor whatsoever.

Like I said, I could be wrong, but I remember reading about it and
finding out that BMW had it for years, but not Volvo.

Older Volvos espoused the philosophy of the founders of Volvo.
 
James, I have more than 20 years of marketing/R&D experience behind
me. Trust me, things are made cheaper. From house to dishwashers,
building obsolence in a new product is a way of life nowadays. It
doesn't pay to build a product the way it was made in the 50s, 60s and
70s.

Regarding the Kenmore Elite HE3T, you will be glad to know that it is
NOT made in the USA, but in Germany. I forgot the name, but it is
sold in Europe under another brand name. And though it only makes
about 2-3 years it is available in the USA, it has been sold in Europe
for the last 30+ years. Build quality is excellent, though slowly
slipping.

It is a far superior product to any non-commercial cloth washers sold
in the USA. Front loading are resources effective and achieve a
higher level of cleaning than top loading. Something like 1/4 to 1/5
the electricity cost and 1/3 the water consumed, compared with top
loading machine. I researched washers for a month before buying it.
 
Patrick said:
I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that the first few years of
production of the S80 did NOT have air bags that adjust depending on
any factor whatsoever.
Click to expand...

Yes, you are wrong. The S80 had dual sensitivity airbags right from the
first model year, 1999.
 
Patrick said:
James, I have more than 20 years of marketing/R&D experience behind
me. Trust me, things are made cheaper. From house to dishwashers,
building obsolence in a new product is a way of life nowadays. It
doesn't pay to build a product the way it was made in the 50s, 60s and
70s.

Regarding the Kenmore Elite HE3T, you will be glad to know that it is
NOT made in the USA, but in Germany. I forgot the name, but it is
sold in Europe under another brand name. And though it only makes
about 2-3 years it is available in the USA, it has been sold in Europe
for the last 30+ years. Build quality is excellent, though slowly
slipping.

It is a far superior product to any non-commercial cloth washers sold
in the USA. Front loading are resources effective and achieve a
higher level of cleaning than top loading. Something like 1/4 to 1/5
the electricity cost and 1/3 the water consumed, compared with top
loading machine. I researched washers for a month before buying it.
Click to expand...

Funny you should mention it, I've been in the market for a new front loading
washer and a dryer, but I'm paranoid of getting some cheap piece of crap
that'll fall apart. I'll remember that model and check it out.
 
My sister has a v70, s80 and her post teens have their old 245s. The
v70 and s80 are "really nice performers" when running well, but they
spend an inordinately high amount of time in the shop, and the repairs
are $$$. The 240s w/ 200K miles go in for routine maintenance and
expenses are minimal. Any car that costs too much to keep running
well and looking good will be retired. Functional obsolescence. As
stated, a new $20K Accord will "outperform" a 7 year old $40K 850R.
Add to the "outperform" a new car smell, better reliability and far
lower maintenance costs and there is little incentive to keep the old
car, certainly not for another 13 masochistic years.
The idea that a car from, say, 1984 will last longer than the same priced
car from 2004 with the same amount of maintenance and repairs is quite
simply insane. Enough said.
Click to expand...

Maybe not 1984 (wiring harness, rust and fuel injection problems) but
the idea that a Volvo from, say, 1992 will NOT last longer than the
same priced car from 2004 with the same amount of maintenance and
repairs (especially because of the extremely high costs of replacing
expensive parts such as computers and integrated components which have
been experiencing such a high failure rate that Volvo
reliability/reputation has taken a serious hit ) is quite simply
insane. Enough said!
 
Bill Stehlin said:
Maybe not 1984 (wiring harness, rust and fuel injection problems) but
the idea that a Volvo from, say, 1992 will NOT last longer than the
same priced car from 2004 with the same amount of maintenance and
repairs (especially because of the extremely high costs of replacing
expensive parts such as computers and integrated components which have
been experiencing such a high failure rate that Volvo
reliability/reputation has taken a serious hit ) is quite simply
insane. Enough said!
Click to expand...

Bill, the idea that the computers in modern cars are not reliable is in
direct opposition to my own observation of 20 or 30 newer Volvos that are
owned and driven by family, friends and acquaintances of mine on a daily
basis. These cars span the last 10 years of production. If these computers
were failing at a rate that was significant, how come none of the Volvo
owners that I know are experiencing any computer failures?

I'm not saying there are zero failures when the entire world fleet is
considered, just that the rate is very low. Furthermore, I would be willing
to bet that the majority of computer failures are caused by human error,
i.e.. incorrect jump starting procedure, incorrect battery replacement
procedure, incorrectly wired electrical "add-ons", etc. etc.

There's no doubt that a modern multi-plexed wiring system is different from
the type of wiring we are all familiar with and it does not lend itself to
owner modifications. A typical luxury car with a conventional electrical
system will have 3 miles of wire weighing hundreds of pounds and thousands
of electrical connections. Multi-plexing reduces this by a dramatic amount.
It's like having a specially designed automotive Ethernet network.
Multiplexing means fewer wires, fewer connectors, and fewer terminals. This
results in less materials to chafe, corrode. shake loose, etc. In addition,
troubleshooting or diagnosis of a problem is easier although the diagnostic
equipment is more complex. Less connections = less problems. Cars are
getting better and easier to diagnose but you won't be able to track down an
electrical problem with a free Saturday afternoon and a multi-meter. A
specialized technician and sophisticated equipment will spot the problem in
minutes.
 
Spanky said:
Yes, you are wrong. The S80 had dual sensitivity airbags right from the
first model year, 1999.
Click to expand...
Well I think Patrick is right. The following is qouted from Volvo VADIS:

"1 stage deployment
The front airbags had 1-stage deployment in model year 1999-2000 cars.
When the SRS (supplemental restraint system) control module decides to
deploy the airbags, deployment occurs at the same force.

2 stage deployment
The front airbags have 2-stage deployment in cars from model year 2001.
When the SRS (supplemental restraint system) control module deploys the
front airbags, both stages are deployed. By varying the time between the two
deployments, softer airbag deployment is achieved in the event of a low
speed collision"

However The SRS/SIPS is operating with 2 collision levels, which is being
used by the control module to evaluate whether to deploy only the seat belt
retentioner or the airbags or both.

In the year 2001 models SRS/SIPS is operating with 5 levels.

Per Hauge
 
Spanky,
My response was to poster saying that newer cars of same cost (in old
dollars) w/ same maintenance expenditures would outlast older cars.
One only has to look at the nearby post "Has anyone worn out an 850
yet?" to see some of the problems and associated costs on the newer
Volvos, and the end of run 850s were a lot better than the first few
years of the V70. In fact JW (who was claiming new Volvos are better
made and will outlast old ones) was complaining about the $$ problems
he was having w/ a '96 850. Possibly the newer ones are as well made
as the 240, but the added sophistication of the systems and expense of
maintenance/parts IMHO will result in them being dumped long before 20
years -- just way too much $$ to keep them going, unlike the older
240.
 
No, I was correct all along. The section you are quoting from VADIS is
mostly speaking of deploying the air bags at two different intensities
depending upon the force of the collision. That was implemented in 2001
models. Patrick and I were discussing the 2 collision level sensor
(depending upon whether the occupant is belted or not). This 2 collision
level sensor was deployed on the first S80's (1999 and up). In 2001 (in
response to the criticisms that the bags were too sensitive) they upgraded
the collision level sensor to operate with 5 levels.

As you can see, airbag deployment is more sophisticated than many realize.
 
Well I guess I got confused about your disscusion om "sensitive airbags"
In my opinion its the sensor system that operates with different levels of
sensitivity, as I also wrote: 2 in 1999 and 5 from 2001. Airbags are
sensitive to electrical signals, but I dont think this is the issue.
 
my `84 240dl is 197k old and i love her very much. thank you for
dealing with my youthful abusiveness (curbs) and not abandoning me.

considering doing silly things like going to Crazy Ray's and ripping a
740T turbo setup out for some new life.

should probably fix that master cylinder first though. :-]
 
No. It's because new cars are better performers. When I bought my 850R in
1996 the sticker was $40k (in 1996 dollars) and it produced 240HP and was
the fastest four door sedan beside the 540i and the Mercedes AMG C36 which
cost over $50k (no 4-door M3 yet at the time).

Now, your homely $20k Accord produces 240HP and there are at least 6-10 four
door sedans under $35k (about $28,000 in 1996 dollars at only 3% a year
inflation, or about 30% less than the 850R) that can crush a stock 850R in
performance. It's a great time to be alive if you are a car freak.

Yes, some lemmings buy just because their neighbors bought. But let's not
pretend that there are not *massive* improvements in cars over just the past
7-8 years because there are.
Click to expand...

that strikes me as a rather good reason to believe the first quote. how
many people need 240 HP cars? they're not strong thinkers and decide
they need to plunk down a huge chunk of change to drive 55 in the left
lane. its always that asshole in the beemer. ;-] there's something to
be said for not having ride control so advanced you have no idea how
fast^H^H^H^Hslow you're going (talking on your cell phone).

dont speak to me about performance when you drive a front wheel drive
car (jest! jest! flamesuit on).

unless its awd, which is aceptable. in another six years when awd comes
with some sort of quattro/skyline/evo drive controller more or less
standard, i can understand the performance line a lot better.

i do see the "common" car becoming more performance aware, which is nice
and cute. before you drove a sports car or other random gem you could
get rediculous bolt on horsepower for. but the average car just wouldnt
cut it. this is an interesting phenomenon i hadnt really put my finger
on before.

i am sincerely worried about the aftermarket world though. before the
gems got made into gods: you knew they were good, so you kept building
new aftermarket bolt ons. now every car and their mother begs for
aftermarket but there's not enough people buying. who needs aftermarket
when you've got 240 HP, right?

myren
 
the other great joy about old cars is you can repair them yourself
unlike a lot of modern cars. the comparitive maintence cost of DIY
versus having to go somewhere is an order of magnitude. compound this
with being able to junk yard the controller arm for my 84 240dl and
there's no way i could afford a new car.
 
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