Will Volvo make a smart move?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Richard Bouchard
  • Start date Start date
Totally agree! I've driven both here in Canada and although we were the
first North American to buy FWD vehicles thirty years ago I still feel
very much in control in my brick in heavy snow. BUT, you do need good
snow tires and driving habits that suit your car. In my case, I can
control my car well only because it has manual transmission, so I don't
have to depend on brakes alone - front brakes are dangerous when it's
slippery! With a FWD, you have to keep your foot on the gas pedal and
play it carefully. And if you feel a loss of control, all you can do to
straighten the car is accelerate. That's why there're so many FWD AND
4WD in the field when the roads are icy and windy. Never happened to me,
even with 4 seasons. Must admit though that I drive much more carefully
than most of them. They probably believe nothing can happen to them,
even at 100mph, since they have 4WD (or FWD)! ;)

Richard.

James Sweet a écrit :
 
Both of you have good points... interesting too - especially the sandbags.
As I'm in the UK, it is rare that it snows, but when it does it causes
complete chaos. The only thing that causes more chaos is fog! Virtually
noone has either chains or snow tyres, and pretty much everyone thinks they
can just drive as normal and it won't affect them - which usually causes
multi-car pileups. If you're over here when it's snowing, I think you'd be
shocked at some people's driving! When comparing FWD and RWD, I was
thinking of no changes in setup, same tyres as in the dry, just the general
ease of driving in the snow which I think my 440 was a little easier than
the 740 to control. Having said that, my 440 felt a lot like a tin can -
the 740 certainly felt much safer and similar to how you described the 240.

Rgds,
Mark


Totally agree! I've driven both here in Canada and although we were the
first North American to buy FWD vehicles thirty years ago I still feel
very much in control in my brick in heavy snow. BUT, you do need good
snow tires and driving habits that suit your car. In my case, I can
control my car well only because it has manual transmission, so I don't
have to depend on brakes alone - front brakes are dangerous when it's
slippery! With a FWD, you have to keep your foot on the gas pedal and
play it carefully. And if you feel a loss of control, all you can do to
straighten the car is accelerate. That's why there're so many FWD AND
4WD in the field when the roads are icy and windy. Never happened to me,
even with 4 seasons. Must admit though that I drive much more carefully
than most of them. They probably believe nothing can happen to them,
even at 100mph, since they have 4WD (or FWD)! ;)

Richard.

James Sweet a écrit :
 
Mark Seeley said:
Both of you have good points... interesting too - especially the sandbags.
As I'm in the UK, it is rare that it snows, but when it does it causes
complete chaos. The only thing that causes more chaos is fog! Virtually
noone has either chains or snow tyres, and pretty much everyone thinks they
can just drive as normal and it won't affect them - which usually causes
multi-car pileups. If you're over here when it's snowing, I think you'd be
shocked at some people's driving! When comparing FWD and RWD, I was
thinking of no changes in setup, same tyres as in the dry, just the general
ease of driving in the snow which I think my 440 was a little easier than
the 740 to control. Having said that, my 440 felt a lot like a tin can -
the 740 certainly felt much safer and similar to how you described the 240.

Rgds,
Mark
Click to expand...

Yeah 740 handles very similarly to a 240. That's kinda scary though, things
are similar to that here, but not *quite* that bad. It's the other drivers
that definitly scare me more in the snow, I'm confident in my ability to get
around, but that doesn't mean some twit in a big SUV won't broadside me
because he's doing 40 mph on snow and can't stop at a light.
 
I've had a 240 wagon since new (alongside an 850-T5 for the last 8
years), and am continually surprised at how delightful the 240 is to
drive! And the far superior load space of the 240 is much
appreciated
too! I would fear that a "new version" of the 240 would be made with
all of the cost cutting apparent in modern cars, making it no where
near as robust as the old 240s. If Volvo started to aggressively
develop cars to last for over 20 (25) years - now wouldn't that be
interesting! They have the proven ability to do it, but I bet the
designers have great difficulty fending off the marketing/accounting
'experts' that say 'this is crazy, you have to make them last just
past warranty'. If only engineers had the same gift-of-the-gab in
the
board rooms as advertising, marketing and accounting executives the
world would be a better place.

It is a pity that the common 240 problems have not been addressed by
Volvo in recognition of how long the 240s are lasting. Why not
release
to us here a quick fix for the squealing heater/cooler fan, a new
wiring harness for the tailgate that can endure endless opening and
closing, and to solve the frequent fuel pump problem (mine gave
trouble in the first week from new for goodness sake). Having a
problem here and there is bad enough, but when the replacement parts
have the same issue you know they haven't tried to address the
weaknesses.

Now I am considering an XC70 (see separate thread asking for
advice).
Am I mad for thinking that my experiences warrant staying with
Volvo,
especially in longetivity?? Are they really "built for life" or is
this just a play on words by a clever american (bs) marketing
machine?? I fear that it is just too easy to pray on us devoted
Volvo
fans by prostituting the good old brand name for short term profits
..
.. we see that happening with so many other well known old brands. If
Ford (America) has controlled Volvo for the last several (V70)
years,
what influence has it proven to have had on the products that we
have
all grown to trust and love? Anyone able to comment?

Cheers,

Jim Kelly

| So let me ask you all this: If Volvo brought back the 240 (with
some
| updated features but otherwise the same car) would you buy it?
|
| I mean, my 240 Turbo is a luxury sedan, a jeep, an SUV, a light
truck,
| and a sports car. It's also 20 years old so, while many of its
parts
| are now old and much of the polish has lost its lustre, it has
| demonstrated that a well built car can serve you for a very very
long
| time (I'll eat my hat if an S-anything lasts 20 years).
|
| But to offer a 240 Turbo now with all the extras (trimmings AND
| mechanical features) it might cost $40K or more. Would you buy
one?
|
| I can say in a heartbeat that I would. Trend or no trend, there
must
| always be a market for sturdy reliability and comfort. I recently
| heard that at least a few of the 240 assembly plants around the
world
| were shut down rather than re-tooled...could they be fired up
again?
|
| Wishful thinking, perhaps, but I think THAT would be the smartest
move
| of all.
| Blurp
|
|
| On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:47:35 -0500, the illustrious 127.0.0.1
| <[email protected]> favored us with the following prose:
|
| >On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:28:06 -0500, Richard Bouchard
<[email protected]>
| >wrote:
| >
| >>Those were the trends of five years ago, at least in North
America. The
| >>SUV and minivan were pronounced dead last year in Detroit and
this year
| >
| >Hard to believe since those vehicles are their big profit makers,
can
| >you cite the source of your statement?
| >
| >
| >
|
 
Do not consider early versions of the V70 XC (those based on the 850 series).
The later ones are based on the S60 and have a much better four wheel drive
system.

Cheers, Peter.

: I've had a 240 wagon since new (alongside an 850-T5 for the last 8
: years), and am continually surprised at how delightful the 240 is to
: drive! And the far superior load space of the 240 is much
: appreciated
: too! I would fear that a "new version" of the 240 would be made with
: all of the cost cutting apparent in modern cars, making it no where
: near as robust as the old 240s. If Volvo started to aggressively
: develop cars to last for over 20 (25) years - now wouldn't that be
: interesting! They have the proven ability to do it, but I bet the
: designers have great difficulty fending off the marketing/accounting
: 'experts' that say 'this is crazy, you have to make them last just
: past warranty'. If only engineers had the same gift-of-the-gab in
: the
: board rooms as advertising, marketing and accounting executives the
: world would be a better place.
:
: It is a pity that the common 240 problems have not been addressed by
: Volvo in recognition of how long the 240s are lasting. Why not
: release
: to us here a quick fix for the squealing heater/cooler fan, a new
: wiring harness for the tailgate that can endure endless opening and
: closing, and to solve the frequent fuel pump problem (mine gave
: trouble in the first week from new for goodness sake). Having a
: problem here and there is bad enough, but when the replacement parts
: have the same issue you know they haven't tried to address the
: weaknesses.
:
: Now I am considering an XC70 (see separate thread asking for
: advice).
: Am I mad for thinking that my experiences warrant staying with
: Volvo,
: especially in longetivity?? Are they really "built for life" or is
: this just a play on words by a clever american (bs) marketing
: machine?? I fear that it is just too easy to pray on us devoted
: Volvo
: fans by prostituting the good old brand name for short term profits
: .
: . we see that happening with so many other well known old brands. If
: Ford (America) has controlled Volvo for the last several (V70)
: years,
: what influence has it proven to have had on the products that we
: have
: all grown to trust and love? Anyone able to comment?
:
: Cheers,
:
: Jim Kelly
:
: : | So let me ask you all this: If Volvo brought back the 240 (with
: some
: | updated features but otherwise the same car) would you buy it?
: |
: | I mean, my 240 Turbo is a luxury sedan, a jeep, an SUV, a light
: truck,
: | and a sports car. It's also 20 years old so, while many of its
: parts
: | are now old and much of the polish has lost its lustre, it has
: | demonstrated that a well built car can serve you for a very very
: long
: | time (I'll eat my hat if an S-anything lasts 20 years).
: |
: | But to offer a 240 Turbo now with all the extras (trimmings AND
: | mechanical features) it might cost $40K or more. Would you buy
: one?
: |
: | I can say in a heartbeat that I would. Trend or no trend, there
: must
: | always be a market for sturdy reliability and comfort. I recently
: | heard that at least a few of the 240 assembly plants around the
: world
: | were shut down rather than re-tooled...could they be fired up
: again?
: |
: | Wishful thinking, perhaps, but I think THAT would be the smartest
: move
: | of all.
: | Blurp
: |
: |
: | On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:47:35 -0500, the illustrious 127.0.0.1
: | <[email protected]> favored us with the following prose:
: |
: | >On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:28:06 -0500, Richard Bouchard
: <[email protected]>
: | >wrote:
: | >
: | >>Those were the trends of five years ago, at least in North
: America. The
: | >>SUV and minivan were pronounced dead last year in Detroit and
: this year
: | >
: | >Hard to believe since those vehicles are their big profit makers,
: can
: | >you cite the source of your statement?
: | >
: | >
: | >
: |
: >-------------------------------------------------------------------
: --------
: | >Because of the current email spam attacks my email account is not
: included,
: | >reply via the newsgroups or ask for a valid email address.
: |
:
 
Thanks Peter . . just the sort of info that I need to know.

Cheers,

Jim Kelly.


| Do not consider early versions of the V70 XC (those based on the
850 series).
| The later ones are based on the S60 and have a much better four
wheel drive
| system.
 
Jim Kelly said:
It is a pity that the common 240 problems have not been addressed by
Volvo in recognition of how long the 240s are lasting.
Click to expand...

The main problem with the 240 is that it will not meet current Volvo
safety standards and can not be made to meet these standards. These
standards include:

ABS
Side Air Bags
Side Impact Standards
Offset Impact Standards

Volvo won't sell a car that doesn't meet these standards.
Now I am considering an XC70. Am I mad for thinking that my
experiences warrant staying with Volvo, especially in longetivity??
Are they really "built for life".
Click to expand...

The XC70 received a major redesign in 2001 which eliminated many
problems. The main problem areas of earlier models were:

Brake Sysem
Electrical System
Body Hardware
 
Jim Kelly said:
I've had a 240 wagon since new (alongside an 850-T5 for the last 8
years), and am continually surprised at how delightful the 240 is to
drive! And the far superior load space of the 240 is much
appreciated
too! I would fear that a "new version" of the 240 would be made with
all of the cost cutting apparent in modern cars, making it no where
near as robust as the old 240s. If Volvo started to aggressively
develop cars to last for over 20 (25) years - now wouldn't that be
interesting! They have the proven ability to do it, but I bet the
designers have great difficulty fending off the marketing/accounting
'experts' that say 'this is crazy, you have to make them last just
past warranty'. If only engineers had the same gift-of-the-gab in
the
board rooms as advertising, marketing and accounting executives the
world would be a better place.

It is a pity that the common 240 problems have not been addressed by
Volvo in recognition of how long the 240s are lasting. Why not
release
to us here a quick fix for the squealing heater/cooler fan, a new
wiring harness for the tailgate that can endure endless opening and
closing, and to solve the frequent fuel pump problem (mine gave
trouble in the first week from new for goodness sake). Having a
problem here and there is bad enough, but when the replacement parts
have the same issue you know they haven't tried to address the
weaknesses.

Now I am considering an XC70 (see separate thread asking for
advice).
Am I mad for thinking that my experiences warrant staying with
Volvo,
especially in longetivity?? or is
this just a play on words by a clever american (bs) marketing
machine?? I fear that it is just too easy to pray on us devoted
Volvo
fans by prostituting the good old brand name for short term profits
.
. we see that happening with so many other well known old brands. If
Ford (America) has controlled Volvo for the last several (V70)
years,
what influence has it proven to have had on the products that we
have
all grown to trust and love? Anyone able to comment?

Cheers,

Jim Kelly

| So let me ask you all this: If Volvo brought back the 240 (with
some
| updated features but otherwise the same car) would you buy it?
|
| I mean, my 240 Turbo is a luxury sedan, a jeep, an SUV, a light
truck,
| and a sports car. It's also 20 years old so, while many of its
parts
| are now old and much of the polish has lost its lustre, it has
| demonstrated that a well built car can serve you for a very very
long
| time (I'll eat my hat if an S-anything lasts 20 years).
|
| But to offer a 240 Turbo now with all the extras (trimmings AND
| mechanical features) it might cost $40K or more. Would you buy
one?
|
| I can say in a heartbeat that I would. Trend or no trend, there
must
| always be a market for sturdy reliability and comfort. I recently
| heard that at least a few of the 240 assembly plants around the
world
| were shut down rather than re-tooled...could they be fired up
again?
|
| Wishful thinking, perhaps, but I think THAT would be the smartest
move
| of all.
| Blurp
|
|
| On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:47:35 -0500, the illustrious 127.0.0.1
| <[email protected]> favored us with the following prose:
|
| >On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:28:06 -0500, Richard Bouchard
<[email protected]>
| >wrote:
| >
| >>Those were the trends of five years ago, at least in North
America. The
| >>SUV and minivan were pronounced dead last year in Detroit and
this year
| >
| >Hard to believe since those vehicles are their big profit makers,
can
| >you cite the source of your statement?
| >
| >
| >
|
--------
| >Because of the current email spam attacks my email account is not
included,
| >reply via the newsgroups or ask for a valid email address.
|
Click to expand...
 
Sure did! The newer V70 is more like the S60 and S80 cars at the front and has a
less square-rigged look at the rear. Altogether a much smoother and handsomer
look.

Cheers, Peter.

: Is there a way to recognise the newer design? IE did the bodywork or
: badges change at this point too?
:
: Interesting web site that you have provided!
: http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman/volvo.html#anchor524987
:
: Thanks.
:
: | The XC70 received a major redesign in 2001 which eliminated many
: | problems. The main problem areas of earlier models were:
: |
: | Brake Sysem
: | Electrical System
: | Body Hardware
: | [email protected]
: | http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman
:
 
. we see that happening with so many other well known old brands. If
Ford (America) has controlled Volvo for the last several (V70)
years,
what influence has it proven to have had on the products that we
have
all grown to trust and love? Anyone able to comment?
Click to expand...

Doesn't matter to me. My 94 850 turbo wagon will be my last (new)
Volvo. Service manuals and computer fault codes are no longer
available to owners on new models.
To me, having the complete service data is as necessary as having an
engine. Sorry, Volvo, you lost a customer.

To reply, please remove one letter from each side of "@"
Spammers are VERMIN. Please kill them all.
 
Doug Warner said:
My 94 850 turbo wagon will be my last (new)
Volvo. Service manuals and computer fault codes are no longer
available to owners on new models.
Click to expand...

I drove my '93 850 180,000 miles and never had any computer codes or
service problems other than a bad AT for which codes were of no help. I
had the dealer do all routine maintenance and ran trouble free. If you
look back, you will find that cars that are worked on the most have the
most problems. Most problems are precipited by previous service.
Having expert service prevents most problems.
 
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